GIVE ME WESTERNS THAT LEONE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB WITH

[franksgrandson]

When I watch a western I always spare a few moments afterwards thinking what Leone could have done with it and personally I think he could have made more of the following whats your thoughts.

True Grit
The Last Hard Men
Tombstone
Sons of Katie Elder
Gunfight at OK Corral

[The Firecracker]

I think any western in existance would have benefited from  Leone being at the helm.

[Groggy]

I don't necessarily agree with that.  I love Leone, but I can't imagine, say, "The Wild Bunch" as being better were it directed by him.

[The Peacemaker]

Well that's because Peckinpah directed the Wild Bunch and Peckinpah and Leone have almost the same film-making style.

[Groggy]

Well that's because Peckinpah directed the Wild Bunch and Peckinpah and Leone have almost the same film-making style.

How do you figure?  I think that the two are very different.  They might use similar character/story types, but TWB and OUATITW, for instance, are extraordinarily different in terms of style.

[The Peacemaker]

Well, Leone was clearly better and his films were much more epic than Peckinpah's but The Wild Bunch could easily be compared to Leone's westerns in thier use of style and extreme violence. In The wild Bunch when the four are about to meet thier fate, they come out of the prostitute's house. The buildings reminded me of the adobe brick buildings in Spain.

[Groggy]

I think Leone was overall a better director than Peckinpah (though I love him), but I don't think TWB can really be compared to Leone's films at all.

The style of violence is drastically different.  In a Leone film (at least his first four), there's no blood, and it's over before you realize it.  In TWB, you have slow-motion, protracted, blood-splattered violence that focuses on the violence itself, whereas Leone focused on the ritual. 

I'm not going to get into the "who owed who what" argument again (it's irrelevant to this discussion anyway), but I don't think you can really compare the two's styles, except in a very general way.

[dave jenkins]

I agree with Groggy and wish to amplify: there are any number of great Westerns that could not be improved upon, even if Leone had been brought in to do the job. A few examples spring instantly to mind: My Darling Clementine, Red River, Winchester 73, Shane. Those films are just about as good as they can be and don't require any fooling with.

Some of the films mentioned above could have benefited from Leone's direction, no doubt: Tombstone, certainly, and OK Corral (SL even pinpointed the problem with the latter: Rhonda Fleming). But those are flawed films to begin with. Surely better directors produce better results.

I'm not sure Leone could have done much more with True Grit than Hathaway did, as it follows its source novel rather closely (anyone who has not read Charles Portis's book should drop everything and get hold of a copy). The film is about the characters and the way those characters speak; it is a rare case where the film's dialogue is more important than its visual grammar.

[Groggy]

Well I'm sure Leone would've gotten rid of (or at least shut up) Kim Darby. 

[dave jenkins]

No doubt. But then it would no longer have been True Grit.

[Groggy]

LOL unfortunately that's true.

I like "True Grit" a lot, after seeing it again last year I do think it's one of Wayne's best performance (though I still think "The Searchers" was by far more Oscar-worthy).  Glen Campbell was tolerable, and Robert Duvall, Dennis Hopper, Jeff Corey, and of course MAH BOY! (TM) Strother Martin were all great in cameos.  And the climactic shootout was beyond compare.  It would be one of my favorite Westerns were it not for Maddy Ross (or whatever her name was).  As Strother said (greatly paraphrased): "I had heard that a girl fell in a well outside of town this morning.  I was hoping it was you." 

[franksgrandson]

When I started this discussion I was thinking of Westerns that you thought needed Leone, I certainly agree that some out there are greats as they stand but everyone has seen a few big named westerns that they felt could have been made better by the master

[Banjo]

When I watch a western I always spare a few moments afterwards thinking what Leone could have done with it and personally I think he could have made more of the following whats your thoughts.

True Grit
The Last Hard Men
Tombstone
Sons of Katie Elder
Gunfight at OK Corral

NONE OF THEM- all of the above are American movies of different merits and should be left as such.I have a preference for Leones westerns because i love the spaghetti style but that is not to say he is any better than the great American directors from which he extensively borrowed from.Ford,Sturges,Hawkes,Corbucci,Sollima and Leone were the best in their own distintive genres!
     You would certainly never have seen John Wayne in a Leone western anyway!

[cigar joe]

I've always said that Hombre could have used Morricone at least, you can almost hear the twang of a jew's harp at Newman's one liners.

I think the jist of the question was Westerns that weren't all  that good that could have benefitted from Leone

As far as which westerns Leone would have done a better job directing or would have benifited from his style, well, Barquero, for one, comes to mind, and possibly Two Mules for Sister Sara (he would have got the Colts right) also Joe Kidd, I'll think of some more.

[The Firecracker]

Dont get me wrong I love "High Noon", but Leone could have improved on it. Especially the pay-off gunfight at the end which is a bit of a disappointment.