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Author Topic: Is FOD/DYS a Western?  (Read 4797 times)
dave jenkins
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« on: March 04, 2004, 12:14:00 AM »

I notice that many postings refer to FOD as a Western, but is it? Doesn't a Western have to either 1) be set in the western U.S. somewhere between, oh, say, the Polk Administration and WWI, or 2) when set somewhere else, at least involve characters transplanted from a Western setting (as happens in _The Wild Bunch_)? Neither of these conditions are met by FOD/DYS, which is set in Mexico and features only locals and a transplanted *Irishman.*

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redyred
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2004, 02:59:53 AM »

Who cares? It's a mighty film whatever it is. I've heard films set in the Mexican revolution called "Zapata westerns". But even by your criteria, well it's supposed to be in 1913 (I think, despite some anachronisms), so it is just before WW1. And it's set in Mexico, but then so is Fistful of Dollars.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2004, 04:42:56 AM »

I've heard the term Zapata Western too, I think you can paint the term 'WESTERN" with a broad stroke, I'd include "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" as a western, John Wayne's "MicKlintok" and "The Shootist" were more modern, also taking things up to more modern times, probably you could call "The Misfits" a western.

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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2004, 07:37:31 AM »

fraylings book contains a similar argument about whether DYS is a western or not.
i think damiano damiani claimed 'A Bullet for the General' was not a western, and that was set during the Mexican Revolution. Personally i dont think its a western but it contains some similar traits.

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2004, 11:36:06 PM »

Who cares? It's a mighty film whatever it is. I've heard films set in the Mexican revolution called "Zapata westerns". But even by your criteria, well it's supposed to be in 1913 (I think, despite some anachronisms), so it is just before WW1. And it's set in Mexico, but then so is Fistful of Dollars.

But then, Eastwood in FOD is a recognizably Western character (the American gunslinger who has gone south).

I guess my point is that DYS, IMHO, has more in common with OUTA then it does with the earlier Leone Westerns.....

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cigar joe
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2004, 04:57:35 AM »

Quote
I guess my point is that DYS, IMHO, has more in common with OUTA then it does with the earlier Leone Westerns.....


If that is your point then yea it would have more in common with OUTIA, but it has "horses".

I remember watching a show on history of western outlaws on the History Channel, and the narrator made the point that once you took the horse out of the equasion they (the gunsliners and outlaws) lost the legend the mystic, the magic , and then they reverted to being common bloodthirsty criminals. So true.

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KERMIT
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2004, 11:49:31 PM »

how about brando's "one-eyed jacks" ? would fit into the zapata genre ?  more shots of carl malden's nose than  of horses.   "viva zapata" ?








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cigar joe
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2004, 06:12:34 AM »

You got them switched around Kermit, One Eyed Jacks takes place along the California Coast, not many main mexican characters at all, except Marlon's love interest (who is Maldens daughter). Lots of horse riding with surf shots in the bg. Malden plays his ex-partner who after a robery makes off successfully with the money while Marlon does time. When Marlon gets out he finds out that Malden has become a respectable landowner and the sheriff of a costal California town. Marlon seekes his share. Its all melodrama, and also Marlon's only stint as a director. There was a lot of method acting and improvization in it.

The Appaloosa, has Marlon comming back from the Civil War his horse is stolen by John Saxon after he is rejected by the girl he fancys and he takes the appaloosa stalion to Mexico as a gift for this same girlfriend. Marlon goes after the horse in mexican gard dying his skinn with coffee grounds and wearing a pancho. There is no revolutionary references at all, just bandits, a lot of Leonesque stuff closeups of ugly people, different camera angles, etc.,etc.

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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2004, 10:45:34 AM »

sergio leone said that the rape scene, at the begining, was setting in an arena, like every final sequence of his precedent western. Here, this is not a shotdown, only a rape (private joke, as we say in french): this is the end of DYS as a western, this is the begining of DYS as a political movie. And then Malory comes...

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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2004, 10:47:26 AM »

you should all read "Conversations avec Sergio Leone", from Noel Simsolo. I have the book...
I'm sorry, i don't know if any english translation of this great book exists (but i don't think so).

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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2004, 04:48:03 AM »

That book sounds interesting, it would be nice if there was a translation.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 10:30:09 PM »

This book would be interesting to get a translation of, since its been two years since this was first posted has anyone here heard of a translation of it?

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