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: The Deer Hunter (1978)  ( 52106 )
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« #90 : August 16, 2009, 07:25:58 AM »

My attempt to point this out was marred by a corrupted image file.



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« #91 : February 04, 2010, 09:45:49 AM »

Looks like it's either loved or hated here. Myself, I liked The Deer Hunter. De Niro and Walken were great, it's hard for me to dislike about anything with Robert De Niro in it honestly. There's also a number of good fun moments in the movie too. I didn't shed any tears but it was pretty sad when Nicky died. I felt bad for Steve as well though...as well as John Cazale himself, he died too soon.


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« #92 : February 05, 2010, 08:24:14 AM »

I like it. Really good actor team and believable characters. If this movie doesn't make you a pacifist, you're really hopeless.  ;)



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« #93 : February 05, 2010, 05:58:52 PM »

I like it. Really good actor team and believable characters. If this movie doesn't make you a pacifist, you're really hopeless.  ;)
Show me a pacifist, and I'll show you a free rider on the blood of others.



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« #94 : February 05, 2010, 06:17:47 PM »

I was just reading in "Final Cut : Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film That Sank United Artists" that 'The Deer Hunter' was entirely British financed.

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« #95 : February 05, 2010, 10:29:09 PM »

I like it. Really good actor team and believable characters. If this movie doesn't make you a pacifist, you're really hopeless.  ;)

I'd say that's misreading the film entirely, but that's just me.



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« #96 : February 05, 2010, 10:47:06 PM »

I watched and watched and watched the emprisonment scene with the escape over and over since I owned a vhs player. I think the russian roulette scene is one of the best scenes ever shot and shocked me when I first saw the movie in 1978.  Couldn't care less about what came before and after: one watches Hollywood movies for action, not for what is done in Europe much better.



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« #97 : February 06, 2010, 03:30:52 AM »

Show me a pacifist, and I'll show you a free rider on the blood of others.
Killing people in order to defend an ideal is not defending an ideal, it's just killing people. Besides, human life is the value #1, and personally to me my own life is the most valuable one.

And I'd say the movie is more about the loss of innocence than pacifism.


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« #98 : February 06, 2010, 09:30:40 AM »

Quote
And I'd say the movie is more about the loss of innocence than pacifism.


I would agree.

« : February 06, 2010, 01:33:57 PM Groggy »


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« #99 : February 06, 2010, 10:20:54 AM »

The Deer Hunter is probably the greatest non-Leone movie ever made.

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« #100 : February 06, 2010, 10:31:28 AM »

Except all the other ones.



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« #101 : February 06, 2010, 11:17:32 AM »

Except all the other ones.
Yeah.

And just for the record, I've never killed anyone. I have thought about it a few times, though . . . .



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« #102 : February 06, 2010, 11:46:13 AM »

That's what you'd have us believe.



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« #103 : February 06, 2010, 01:15:22 PM »

Show me a pacifist, and I'll show you a free rider on the blood of others.

How exactly are you gonna do that? You haven't been in war, neither have you killed anyone (nor has anyone killed you). What is your judgment and supposed expertise founded on?

« : February 06, 2010, 01:22:45 PM Dust Devil »
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« #104 : February 06, 2010, 02:48:19 PM »

Reason.

A pacifist is someone who refuses to fight under any circumstances (by definition). That position is a luxury paid for by the sacrifices of others (those who fought and/or died previously; those who will fight and/or die in the future) because no society can tolerate such a position when it is faced with the certainty of its own destruction. It must always believe, in war or in peace, that it will prevail (that is, that it has enough people to fight and/or die for it even with the pacifists sitting out the wars).

War is the natural condition between competing nation-states/societies/cultures (there being, in the settling of disputes, no higher court to appeal to). The momentary respite many of us now enjoy is the result of previous wars and the threat of the resumption of war if the peace is ever breached.  That threat must be credible: other nation-states must believe that those states they oppose are composed mostly of fighters, not pacifists. But even the most credible threats are eventually tested, so most of a nation's citizenry must always be prepared to fight when necessary.

The "free rider" concept comes from economics, and refers to persons or groups who get the benefits that society hands out without having to pay for what those benefits cost. Obviously the person who can avoid paying taxes is an example: he does not pay for road maintenance, but still has the use of maintained roads; he does not contribute to police salaries, but still enjoys the protection policing affords; he does not financially support the judiciary, but still is entitled to equal protection under the law. And so on. All societies have, to one degree or another, a free rider "problem."

The currency of warfare is blood. It can only be paid one way, and working in a hospital, or lolling about in a prison as a CO, is no recompense. The pacifist says by implication, whether he/she acknowledges it or not, "I want the good things my society provides, but to ensure them someone else has to risk his life on my behalf. I will neither risk my life on my own behalf, nor on the behalf of others." Some see pacifists as moral paragons, but to me, they're just another species of panhandlers.

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