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Poggle
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« on: September 19, 2006, 02:23:42 PM »

NOTE: Excluding the American version.

Deleted scenes in the Italian version:

-Juan and the gang pulling a "Tuco and Blondie" on John in the desert
-Villega's torture
-Another flashback involving John throwing a bottle at a gramophone
-There's a supposed scene between Juan and John outside the train meeting one of the revolutionary leaders(that odd dissolve is quite un-Sergio-like).

Assuming that these scenes would amount up to at least 20-30 minutes I am wondering - do you think these cuts were made because of the Italian studios? A Sergio film without infamous torture/beating scenes is quite odd, I do say.

There is also something I've been wondering for a long time. It's known that the American studios wanted it to be called A Fistful of Dynamite even though Leone wanted it to be called Duck You Sucker, yet I also heard he wanted it to be called Once Upon a Time... The Revolution and that only the French version is called that. What is the whole story with the various name changes? Didn't Leone also want the Italian version to be called Once Upon a Time... The Revolution? Why would he want that and then want the American version to be called Duck You Sucker?

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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 05:21:38 PM »

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-There's a supposed scene between Juan and John outside the train meeting one of the revolutionary leaders(that odd dissolve is quite un-Sergio-like).

That seems to me to be heresay and speculation propagated by DVD Savant.  Unless there's any evidence of such a scene ever existing I'm going to write it off as speculation.

But really, would these scenes add anything more than just curios to the film? 

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 09:34:42 PM »

I think that if there was a flashback excluded that could change a lot.

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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 12:13:34 AM »



There is also something I've been wondering for a long time. It's known that the American studios wanted it to be called A Fistful of Dynamite even though Leone wanted it to be called Duck You Sucker, yet I also heard he wanted it to be called Once Upon a Time... The Revolution and that only the French version is called that. What is the whole story with the various name changes? Didn't Leone also want the Italian version to be called Once Upon a Time... The Revolution? Why would he want that and then want the American version to be called Duck You Sucker?

Leone always intended the italian title to be "Giu La Testa". He also intended the American title to be "Duck you sucker", he thought it was common American slang Roll Eyes

When the film bombed in America under the "DYS" title, the American studio changed the name to "A Fistful of Dynamite" to capitalize on Leone's previous successes in that country.

Leone NEVER intended the title to be "Once Upon a time...the revolution!". This title was made and meant (by the French studios, distributers...whatever...) to capitalize on his previous success in France with OUATITW.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 12:16:34 AM by The Firecracker » Logged



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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 10:14:18 AM »

Good summary, Firecracker. This is my understanding of the matter also.

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 08:48:28 AM »

Leone NEVER intended the title to be "Once Upon a time...the revolution!". This title was made and meant (by the French studios, distributers...whatever...) to capitalize on his previous success in France with OUATITW.

Actually Leone did want to call the film "C'era una volta la rivoluzione". This was his desired Italian title and it was only the French title that maintained it. Here are his comments in Simsolo p.149 following his discussion about the Mao citation at the beginning and the theme of revolution:

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"And I had wanted to call the film 'Once upon a time... the revolution'. It was only in France that it was named in this way. In Italy the distributor said that it could be confused with Bertolucci's 'Prima della rivoluzione', filmed 5 years earlier! So I chose 'Giu la testa'..."

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 09:06:33 AM »

Ex post facto explanations are always to be looked on with suspicion, especially in Leone's case. Put another way: SL was always more trustworthy about his motives before events than after.

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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 09:17:36 AM »

Ex post facto explanations are always to be looked on with suspicion, especially in Leone's case. Put another way: SL was always more trustworthy about his motives before events than after.

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5820.msg134929#msg134929

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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 04:05:42 PM »

Interesting. But I'm still waiting for any shred of evidence that existed before the film was released that SL wanted the Once Upon a Time title for the film. Like a copy of the shooting script with that title, or production logs with that title, or correspondence referring to the film by that title. Anything like that. Anything at all.

Still waiting.

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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2009, 04:56:01 PM »

If Bogdanovich is to be believed, Leone was insisting on Duck, You Sucker as a title even before filming started, and interviews with Leone recounted in STDWD back up his assertions. Perhaps after the fact he wanted to link his last three films as a loose trilogy but that didn't seem on his mind at the time.

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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 04:59:41 PM »

Trying to keep this in one place so am replying here: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5820.msg134961#msg134961

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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 06:01:53 PM »

IMO "Once Upon a Time... The Revolution" is the by far the best title for the film (Frayling agrees with me Wink)
It best conveys both the fairy-tale-like idealism ("Once upon a time") as well as the harsh reality of war ("... the revolution).

(similar to OUATITW & OUATIA, whose titles are a combination/juxtaposition of fairy tale ["once upon a time"] and reality ["in the west" or "in America"]).
 This "once upon a time" title would have somewhat of a different meaning than OUATITW & OUATIA -- which were built upon Leone's childhood dreams of the grandeur of America, the West, and the Western -- whereas in this film, it would connote the fantasy of revolution as espoused by the hardcore leftist filmmakers and social movements in the late 60's (and of Sean in the film), rather than that of Leone himself.
While OUATITW was a Leone's love story to the Western (with the love for and death of the West sort of as a metaphor for the love for and death of the Western), this film is a total criticism of the pro-revolutionary attitude many European filmmakers had at the time.

While the connotations of the fairy-tale aspect of this title would be therefore somewhat different than that of OUATITW & OUATIA, i strongly believe that "Once Upon a Time... the Revolution" is the best title for this film.

The title "Duck, You Sucker," (while also conveying the theme of the film), is quite silly (Leone insisted that it was an American saying, despite  every American telling they'd never geard anyone use that saying!) Indeed, the title of this film is probably my biggest criticism of Leone's entire body of work (maybe my only criticism)

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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2011, 04:47:21 AM »

The title "Duck, You Sucker," (while also conveying the theme of the film), is quite silly (Leone insisted that it was an American saying, despite  every American telling they'd never heard anyone use that saying!)

Not quite true, I've heard people use "Duck!" in various forms, followed immediately by ... "Asshole", or "Numb Nuts", "You Asshole", or "You Dummy" in a joking way, I've even said it on occasion.  I'm thinking that possibly on one or some of those American Productions he worked on, that he could possibly have overheard two or a group of Americans horse-shitting around with each other throwing electrical leads or other equipment around back and forth like that and just assumed it was an actual common American saying when it may have just been specific to that particular American film crew.

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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2011, 06:06:26 AM »

The title "Duck, You Sucker," (while also conveying the theme of the film), is quite silly (Leone insisted that it was an American saying, despite  every American telling they'd never heard anyone use that saying!)

Not quite true, I've heard people use "Duck!" in various forms, followed immediately by ... "Asshole", or "Numb Nuts", "You Asshole", or "You Dummy" in a joking way, I've even said it on occasion.  I'm thinking that possibly on one or some of those American Productions he worked on, that he could possibly have overheard two or a group of Americans horse-shitting around with each other throwing electrical leads or other equipment around back and forth like that and just assumed it was an actual common American saying when it may have just been specific to that particular American film crew.

maybe. who knows. but he should have listened to all the Americans who told him it was a ridiculous title

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