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Author Topic: I got the time line down...  (Read 85794 times)
cigar joe
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« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2007, 04:44:17 PM »

sources:

Sibley's New Mexico Campaign,  Hall, (2002 University of New Mexico Press)
Bloody Valverde, John Taylor, (1995 University of New Mexico Press) great pictures, maps so so
The Battle of Glorieta Pass, Edrington & Taylor (1998 University of New Mexico Press) great pictures, maps a bit better.
Blood & Thunder, Hampton Sides (2006 Doubleday)
The Civil War in the American West, Alvin M. Josephy Jr. (1991 Knoff)
Paddy Graydon Desert Tiger and the Civil War in the Far Southwest (1992 University of Texas at El Paso)

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cigar joe
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« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2007, 04:46:29 PM »

Thanks guys!

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« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2007, 06:08:04 PM »


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« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2007, 11:11:54 AM »

Been reading the rest of Alvin M. Josephy's "The Civil War in The American West" and after ploffing through the Souix uprising in Minnesota, I'm back on the "of Ships & Mud" chapter detailing the battle along the Texas coast & the Mississippi River.

Found out that after Sibley's Brigade stumbled back to San Antonio in dribs & drabs they reconstituted and fought at the Battle of Galvezton on land & as "horse marines" on the two Confederate rams Neptune, & Bayou City, while on their way to Louisiana.

In Louisiana they brought their captured Valverde Battery along &  fought under the overall command of Taylor at the Battle of Ft. Bisland. Taylor had exhausted his patience with Sibley (as a result of his drinking) and removed him from command and Tom Green took over.


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« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2007, 11:05:32 AM »


Found out that after Sibley's Brigade stumbled back to San Antonio in dribs & drabs ....
My 75% off copy of Foote came Saturday and I read the material on the New Mexico Campaign. Foote is quite good on the final march back home:

Quote
Canby did not pursue. He knew the country Sibley was taking his men through, out there beyond the narrow valley benches. It was all desert, and he was having no part of it. He marched his troopers leisurely on to the safety and comfort of Ft. Craig, arriving April 22. By that time Sibley’s Texans were at the midpoint of their detour. Canby was content to leave their disposal to the desert.

It was one of the great marches of all time, and one of the great nightmares ever after for the men who survived it. They had no guide, no road, not even a trail through that barren waste, and they began the ten-day trek with five days’ poor rations, including water. What few guns they had brought along were dragged and lowered up- and downhill by the men, who fashioned long rope harnesses for the purpose. For miles the brush and undergrowth were so dense that they had to cut and hack their way through with bowie knives and axes. Skirting the western slopes of the Madelenas, they crossed the Sierra de San Mateo, then staggered down the dry bed of the Palomas River until they reached the Rio Grande again[……]. From start to finish, since heading north at the opening of the year, they had suffered a total of 1700 casualties. Something under 500 of these fell or were captured in battle, and of the remaining 1200 who did not get back to Texas, a good part crumpled along the wayside during this last 100 miles. They reached the river with nothing but their guns and what they carried on their persons. A northern lieutenant, following their trail a year later, reported that he “not infrequently found a piece of a gun-carriage, or part of a harness, or some piece of camp or garrison equipage, with occasionally a white, dry skeleton of a man. At some points it seemed impossible for men to have made their way.”

Sibley reached Fort Bliss in early May, with what was left of this command strung out for fifty miles behind him. Here he made his report to the Richmond government, a disillusioned man. (Foote 304)

So, Sibley and the boys had to suffer much in the same way that Tuco made Blondie suffer. Fitting.

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« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2007, 02:58:12 PM »

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So, Sibley and the boys had to suffer much in the same way that Tuco made Blondie suffer. Fitting.

Yes, and after El Paso & Ft. Bliss they had still to march all the way back to San Antonio and because of the size of the Brigade were again as when they started originally from San Antonio forced to break up into small companies and march the route in stages so that they wouldn't drink the springs dry.

There is a lot of detail on the whole march in "Sibley's New Mexico Campaign" by Hall.  Afro

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« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2007, 09:35:21 AM »

Clarification, please:
Quote
April 18th -1862

B&T arrive at night at Confederate Picket Post probably near Paraje and find out they are at a place called Apache Canyon. Tuco asks for the closest infirmary and finds out that he is near his brothers San Antonio Mission hospital.
Why would pickets still be at Apache Canyon at this late date? Wouldn't they all be marching back with Sibley to El Paso at this point?

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« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2007, 02:22:02 PM »

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Why would pickets still be at Apache Canyon at this late date? Wouldn't they all be marching back with Sibley to El Paso at this point?

Its not the Apache Canyon of the Santa Fe Trail.

After reading numerous histories of New Mexico & the Southwest you find out that practically every mountian range had its own Apache band, Mimbreno, Jicarilla, etc., etc. so for the time line I'm  speculating that there are many Apache Canyon's as there are Apache tribal bands throughout New Mexico.

The other fact is that Steele with a part of the 7th Cavalry stayed put in the Mesilla Valley all through the campaing from about Paraje on the Rio Grande South to the border.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 06:45:11 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2007, 04:25:37 PM »

Man, this gets confusing. Next you'll be telling me there's two Socorros! Wink

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« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2007, 06:48:02 AM »

A few other bands that I remember off the top of my head the Mescaleros, Chiricahuas, Coyotera, Mescalero, San Carlos, Tonto, and White Mountain Apaches.

In Montana for instance there are at least two Kootenai Creeks one in the Mission Mountains and one in the Bitteroots,  and Crow Creeks also.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 07:01:37 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2007, 08:37:57 AM »

Its not the Apache Canyon of the Santa Fe Trail.


Is there any reason why the Apache Canyon in GBU can't be the one on the Santa Fe Trail? It would change the time line a bit, but is there a problem with that?

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« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2007, 12:06:23 PM »

The problem is geography and chronology, its a couple of hundred miles north of Journada Del Muerta, the Confederates have already evacuated Santa Fe & Albuquerqe and a Confederate picket post that far north would not make much sence at that time period.

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« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2007, 05:07:25 PM »

Gotcha.

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« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2007, 08:39:58 PM »

 Afro

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« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2007, 07:23:23 AM »

Hey, Joe, I was discussing Sibley with my dad and he pointed out that Sibley was the inventor of the conical tent (inspired, of course, by Indian teepees), which became a big deal with the British Army, especially in Egypt. He also invented something called the Sibley Stove. I guess the guy was really a quartermaster at heart, and should have had staff jobs rather than commands. The sad thing is he never received any royalties for his inventions. I found out a little bit of info regarding this here: http://egypt.atomicmartinis.com/hhsibley.htm

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