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Author Topic: I got the time line down...  (Read 85718 times)
marmota-b
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It's perfect timing, large one...


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« Reply #135 on: May 14, 2008, 06:24:47 AM »

wow, what an effort
It didn't take that much guys just highlight & paste  Wink

Hey, but how much did it take to learn all pieces of information needed, and put it together, and write it down here, huh? I second it: What an effort!

I need to find time to finally really, seriously, carefully read through this... so far I've been only skipping through...

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« Reply #136 on: May 14, 2008, 10:17:54 PM »

It took actual timewise about a week to put it all together after I read :

Sibley's New Mexico Campain
The Civil War in the American West
Bloody Valverde
The Battle of Glorietta Pass
Desert Tiger Captain Paddy Graydon
Blood & Thunder

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« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2008, 06:50:03 AM »

after I read :

Sibley's New Mexico Campain
The Civil War in the American West
Bloody Valverde
The Battle of Glorietta Pass
Desert Tiger Captain Paddy Graydon
Blood & Thunder

So how much did THAT take? Grin

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« Reply #138 on: May 15, 2008, 08:31:46 AM »

Quote
So how much did THAT take?


Two very enjoyable months more or less.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 09:17:35 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #139 on: May 15, 2008, 08:34:30 AM »

...the major movements of the characters superimposed upon an 1859 map on the West.

When inquisition is paired with passion ... 'tis an amazing thing.

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El Incompetente
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« Reply #140 on: December 16, 2008, 02:10:29 PM »

Those maps are great.

Im curious about three of the locations on the second map on page 2 and i hope someone can
can tell me a little bit about them.
Two of them lies east of the San Andres mountains and the third one east of
the Organ mountains:

The place marked "Tres Hermanos" sounds like it could be some rock formation, a landmark.

The second one is right below, "Ojo St Nicholas", and has a marked spot which
maybe indicates a settlement of some kind.

And the third one is a bit further down, an unmarked spot with four road connections.
Im guessing it could be the San Augustin ranch,
a place that apparently exists even to this day.

And CJ, were the roads marked "Butterfield Overland Stage Road" actual stage roads?






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« Reply #141 on: December 16, 2008, 05:10:55 PM »

Here is a closeup of the original Map



Looks like the spots marked with a small circle are settlements, Tres Hermanos, and above it St. Andros Spring and Salt Branch are landmarks as is Point of Rocks to the West. The spot with the circle below Ojo St Nicholas (above the "o" in Filmore) probably a settlement or a ranch but has no name, if you are familair with the area prehaps its what you say the San Augustin Ranch.

Don't know about the St. Augustine Ranch.

As far as the stage road it is marked "Overland Mail Route" right below the Rio Pecos see a farther East section of map and has the same road symbol (two parallel lines) below:



And you can see the route marked on this National Geographic Civil War map below:



« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 03:41:34 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #142 on: December 17, 2008, 02:43:23 PM »

Thanks once again CJ!

I spotted a dot on the NG Civil War map - east of Organ Mountains - 
marked San Augustin Springs, so it is most likely the San Augustin Ranch/Springs on the 1859 map.

Does that map say what other kinds of roads there are, for example the one marked with short lines
and the one that looks like a Morse code signal, with a line and two dots?

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« Reply #143 on: December 17, 2008, 04:31:30 PM »


This is the title of the map:

Map of the territory of the United States from the Mississippi River to the Pacific Ocean; ordered by Jeff' Davis, Secretary of War to accompany the reports of the explorations for a railroad route. Compiled from authorized explorations and other reliable data by G. K. Warren ... under the direction of W. H. Emory in 1854 and of A. A. Humphreys 1854-5-6-7-8. Drawn by E. Freyhold. Engr. on stone by J. Bien.

This is its description  below there is no legend on the map some of the lines have names and dates which I would assume are the survey routes the others would probably be the wagon roads & trails :

Very detailed map of the United States west of the Mississippi River indicating drainage, relief by hachures, cities and towns, forts, trails, wagon roads, and routes of exploration. An important map of western expansion, it utilized and lists 45 major exploration and mapping reports from the Lewis & Clark to the U.S. General Land Office Surveys.

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« Reply #144 on: December 18, 2008, 04:12:46 PM »

Ok, thanks.

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« Reply #145 on: April 17, 2009, 08:27:08 PM »

I wonder what a timeline of the entire Dollars films would like?

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« Reply #146 on: April 18, 2009, 05:56:58 AM »

There are separate subjects for them manuel, check out the threads, but from the clues in the films they both take place near the turn of the century, so Blondie couldn't possibly actually be the same guy as Joe or Manco (Blondie would be about 60 years old).

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« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2009, 04:58:19 PM »

Reading over this timeline again (I referred it to DVD Savant and he seems to appreciate it), the one thing which seems improbable to me is Blondie and Tuco's march to Betterville. I'm not sure how likely it is that they would have been marched over 1,000 miles on foot through territory either occupied by Indians or swarming with partisans to get to a prison camp. Is this what happened to the real Sibley POWs or is this just conjecture? I know that there was at least one Union POW camp farther west than Illinois, on Alcatraz Island.

Forgive me if this has been addressed before, but I didn't see anything dealing with this issue.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 05:13:53 PM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #148 on: June 12, 2009, 07:45:13 PM »

Once they go to Betterville and leave New Mexico its all made up.  In reality all the prisoners were pardoned with the stipulation that they would not take up arms again, POW camps didn't start until I think 1864.

They probably would have marched North to Colorado then East to Kansas. The emigrant wagon trains walk/rode West, the Cherokee Trail of Tears  removal walked it Georgia to Oklahoma wouldn't far fetched "In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high."

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« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2009, 07:50:26 PM »

True, paroling of captured enemies was quite common (as were prisoner exchanges until spring of 1864), but there were several POW camps in operation in 1862. According to Wikipedia, Alcatraz was holding Confederate prisoners from the first year of the war onward (don't know who they would have been holding that early in the war - maybe some of Baylor's men?), the Confederates were operating Castle Thunder in Virginia around the time of Antietam if not earlier. Fort Delaware was a Union POW camp established in spring of 1862. However, as you correctly state, none of these except Alcatraz was at all west.

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