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: I finally saw it too  ( 13542 )
marmota-b
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It's perfect timing, large one...


« #15 : September 26, 2006, 12:44:56 AM »

I just realized something: Leone gives us something to debate in almost every one of his movies

That's right; and that's one of the many reasons why we all love his films, don't you think?



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
marmota-b
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It's perfect timing, large one...


« #16 : September 26, 2006, 12:50:05 AM »

BTW, John/Sean - I hope you all realize that it's the same name, in different languages?
It's all the same as if a Czech or Dutch told Juan his name is Jan (read Yan). Juan wouldn't understand, so that man would add John.



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
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« #17 : September 26, 2006, 05:55:15 AM »

Very interesting discussion: yesterday I saw the film once again and I noticed that the first flashback starts right after the Sean-John scene, when Juan says: that's great, we are Juan and John, this is a sign of destiny.
This, added to Coburn's expression in that moment, made me realize that Mallory and his irish friend names were Sean and John (see also Coburn's expression in that moment) and Juan statement reminded him that old and  painful friendship.
The only doubt I still have is: who is Sean and who is John?

il brutto
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« #18 : September 26, 2006, 06:32:08 AM »

Furthermore: I am convinced that it was Leone's intention to make re-live the Sean-John friendship in the new Juan-John (Sean) partnership. That's why they have all the same name. And during the movie this partnership becomes a real new friendship so that Juan seems to be, by Mallory's point of view, the reflection of his old irish friend he killed in the pub. And when he blows himself saving Juan's life it could be like he has paid the tribute to his remorse.
What do you think about my theory?

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« #19 : September 26, 2006, 07:17:33 AM »

I think it's great (but then, it agrees with mine).



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« #20 : September 26, 2006, 07:33:51 AM »

I'm sorry Dave, but I haven't read your posts linked, I'm going to do it right now.

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« #21 : September 26, 2006, 01:31:34 PM »

Furthermore: I am convinced that it was Leone's intention to make re-live the Sean-John friendship in the new Juan-John (Sean) partnership. That's why they have all the same name. And during the movie this partnership becomes a real new friendship so that Juan seems to be, by Mallory's point of view, the reflection of his old irish friend he killed in the pub. And when he blows himself saving Juan's life it could be like he has paid the tribute to his remorse.
What do you think about my theory?


Ah excellent theory. Kill himself before he can kill another friend. perfect. touching.




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« #22 : September 26, 2006, 02:07:34 PM »

Firecracker's right, that was a great theory Il Brutto.


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« #23 : September 26, 2006, 02:43:30 PM »

he blows himself saving Juan's life

I must be missing something here. How does Sean save Juan's life by blowing himself up?



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« #24 : September 26, 2006, 04:23:47 PM »

BTW, John/Sean - I hope you all realize that it's the same name, in different languages?
It's all the same as if a Czech or Dutch told Juan his name is Jan (read Yan). Juan wouldn't understand, so that man would add John.

Yeah, I know.

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« #25 : September 26, 2006, 10:16:53 PM »

Yeah, I know.

Someone (Peace and maybe even somebody else, I don't see all replies under mine when I'm writing and I forgot to look at it before ;D) wrote that John could be fake name. I think it's not, it's just how English call him.

That theory about friends really makes sense.



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
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« #26 : September 27, 2006, 01:34:55 AM »

Thank you guys, I am glad you agree with my theory. It's funny I arrived to this conclusion only after seeing the movie for the tenth time (more or less).

Sucker, Sean saves Juan's life because blowing himself up also means stopping the battle that was taking place, in which Juan could have been killed. Don't forget he waits for Juan to get far from him before he causes the explosion. Furthermore ha had already saved his life one time before, when he arrived with his motorbike during Juan's execution.

After all this discussion I still don't know who is John and who is Sean of the two Mallory and his irish friend.

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« #27 : September 27, 2006, 06:32:09 AM »


Sucker, Sean saves Juan's life because blowing himself up also means stopping the battle that was taking place, in which Juan could have been killed.
Not only that, but it puts to an end all hopes of a "Johnny and Johnny" partnership robbing banks in America. Now THAT'S an occupation that could get Juan killed.



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« #28 : September 27, 2006, 07:10:13 AM »

Not only that, but it puts to an end all hopes of a "Johnny and Johnny" partnership robbing banks in America. Now THAT'S an occupation that could get Juan killed.


Iím not so sure about that Dave. Sean had been shot by Reza and felt he was going to die. There was no future for him, the only thing he could do was to blow himself up in order to end the battle and so saving Juanís life and giving his last contribution to the revolution.

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« #29 : September 27, 2006, 08:01:05 AM »

 
Quote
Iím not so sure about that Dave. Sean had been shot by Reza and felt he was going to die. There was no future for him, the only thing he could do was to blow himself up in order to end the battle and so saving Juanís life and giving his last contribution to the revolution.

  I always got the impression the battle was pretty much over once Juan shoots Ruiz with the machine gun.  Maybe some mop-up duty of the troops who survived the collision and follow up firefight, but the battle was pretty much over.  Of course, haven't watched FOD in awhile so I could be way off base.

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