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Tuco the ugly
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« : October 25, 2006, 03:41:16 PM »

just rewatched the movie,something came to my mind,
i've always considered funny Monco  refering to Mortimer as "old man",cause we know Van Cleef was only 5 years older than Eastwood...
what do you guys think?

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« #1 : October 25, 2006, 04:10:26 PM »

I think he's realy supposed to be older in the film he does say If I remember right,  "I've reached almost 50 years with my system...." or something like that. Eastwood was probably playing his actual age.


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« #2 : October 25, 2006, 07:17:53 PM »

Right - van Cleef looked older than his real age because of his baldness.  So conider Mortimer almost 50 like he says, and Manco 28-30....

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« #3 : October 25, 2006, 07:22:11 PM »

Which also reminds me: when I first saw GBU in 1968, one of the guys who went with us said afterwards about poor Eli Wallach and running around the graveyard, he was so old.  Well, Eli was only about 5 years older than Van Cleef, making him about 49-50 at that time; I'm older than that now, and I could still do that running.....especially to the music.... and apparently Wallach had to run only once: two cameras, one a close-up, were mounted together to pan him running at once.

Tuco the ugly
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« #4 : October 26, 2006, 04:42:15 AM »

I think he's realy supposed to be older in the film he does say If I remember right,  "I've reached almost 50 years with my system...." or something like that. Eastwood was probably playing his actual age.

yes that's what he says,
i know that in the movie LVC plays a caracter older than CE,but 20 years older :o

Tuco the ugly
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« #5 : October 26, 2006, 04:44:37 AM »

Which also reminds me: when I first saw GBU in 1968, one of the guys who went with us said afterwards about poor Eli Wallach and running around the graveyard, he was so old.  Well, Eli was only about 5 years older than Van Cleef, making him about 49-50 at that time; I'm older than that now, and I could still do that running.....especially to the music.... and apparently Wallach had to run only once: two cameras, one a close-up, were mounted together to pan him running at once.

so,poor eli had to earn his lunch ;D

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« #6 : October 26, 2006, 02:58:14 PM »

Let's return to my evil twin theory. Angel Eyes, the twin brother of Mortimer, is probably about 35 in GBU. FAFDM takes place in the late 1870s, by my reckoning, and since we know from Cigar Joe's timeline that events in GBU end in 1862, about 15 years pass until the events in FAFDM. So Mortimer must be around 50 (as the internal evidence confirms).



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« #7 : October 26, 2006, 05:42:47 PM »

 8)


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« #8 : October 27, 2006, 04:18:47 PM »

Let's return to my evil twin theory. Angel Eyes, the twin brother of Mortimer, is probably about 35 in GBU. FAFDM takes place in the late 1870s, by my reckoning, and since we know from Cigar Joe's timeline that events in GBU end in 1862, about 15 years pass until the events in FAFDM. So Mortimer must be around 50 (as the internal evidence confirms).

Nah!...disagree... in close ups AE definatley looks in his mid to late Forties...

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Tuco the ugly
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« #9 : October 27, 2006, 04:41:18 PM »

Nah!...disagree... in close ups AE definatley looks in his mid to late Forties...

ICE

ofkorz,if you look closer,but on firts sight he looks much older,because of the baldness and the greyness of his hair

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« #10 : December 14, 2006, 05:13:58 PM »

Well, Mortimer always calls him boy. "Any trouble, boy?"
"No, Old man."

I always liked that part of the movie. Eastwood as the rash young bounty killer, and Mortimer, out for revenge, deadly, and has quite a few years under his belt.

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« #11 : February 15, 2007, 07:00:46 PM »

Mortimer appears to be older than eastwood and that was the point.


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« #12 : May 03, 2007, 10:54:56 AM »

I found the old man and young boy references in FFDM interesting.  I thought they were more than reminders or indicators of  the actual ages of Mortimer and Manco.  I think Leone does something rather interesting in these references which refer back to the time piece and also makes the enjoyable ending of the film more meaningful.  By the script we do know that Mortimer is approaching fifty.  Manco, from speculation, is probably supposed to be late twenties/early thirties.  I noticed the old man/young man references two other times when the Mortimer and Manco characters are together.  There may of been more, but they're much more subtle in the script.  I became aware of them when Mortimer and Manco meet after they know about each other and form their alliance.  Manco evens asks Mortimer whether he was young at one time.  The other time was when Mortimer and Manco meet each other after the bank robbery and decide upon their next course of action.  I think they refer to each other as young and old.  In that final scene after Indio is killed, it becomes more pronounced and less subtle.  They repeat it  more than a few times.  I think it definitely refers back to the time piece.  The time piece  seems to have more than one meaning.  I think it symbolizes the love/union of Mortimer's sister and husband.  The two time pieces first appear together in a heart shaped gift box.  Afterward the time piece also becomes a very important symbol as a device in Indio's memory to recall the rape/suicide, and psychologically associate sex with death.  It becomes part of his ritualistic killings.  Also I think the time piece becomes important as a reminder of one's own mortality.  Those in possession of the time pieces are aware of their age and the inevitability of their own death.  I think this can be seen with Mortimer and Indio.  Interestingly, when Manco comes to be in possession of the time piece, I think it's symbolic of the growth, maturation he gains from perhaps being in league with Mortimer.  He comes in and really saves Mortimer making the final showdown a fair fight.  After the gunfight and death of Indio, the characters use the references quite often.  I think it makes the ending of the film with Mortimer riding out with the sunset even more meaningful.  More than a good guy having achieved his goal and riding off into the sunset, Mortimer with both time pieces rides off into the sunset of his life.  The viewer gets the impression he is going to return to the Carolinas and try to resume his life.


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« #13 : May 03, 2007, 04:05:42 PM »

Quote
More than a good guy having achieved his goal and riding off into the sunset, Mortimer with both time pieces rides off into the sunset of his life.  The viewer gets the impression he is going to return to the Carolinas and try to resume his life.

You are right on with that, I'd only offer that the final gunbattle took place in just a few hours prehaps between the false dawn and sunrise so Mortimer is riding East into the sunrise.


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« #14 : May 05, 2007, 10:36:32 AM »

You are right on with that, I'd only offer that the final gunbattle took place in just a few hours perhaps between the false dawn and sunrise so Mortimer is riding East into the sunrise.

Thank you CJ for pointing me in right direction  :)....i have similar moments of confusion with East of Eden and West Side Story  ::).
That Mortimer is travelling east would definitely reinforce the idea that he's ready to go back home and resume his life.

In watching FFDM, I wanted to really pay attention to the significance of the time piece, because it would be a symbol that Leone uses again in OUATIA.  I had another thought about the time piece....whether intentional or not....could it also kind of be a metaphor for the Union.  Mortimer is representative of southern life, Confederacy.  The two time pieces become separated when Indio takes one after the rape/suicide/murder.  Mortimer goes thru his long period of conflict in exacting revenge from Indio.  After the final gunfight the two time pieces are united.  Mortimer rides off towards the east to resume his life in the south.


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