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Author Topic: How could it possibly be a dream?  (Read 22688 times)
cedet
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« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2003, 08:26:19 AM »

Yes, But it is so easy, to say oki: it's a dream and every action you love did not happenned (ok its a movie, i know, but still...)....
Anybody read the book "the Hoods", that inspired the movie?

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cedet
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« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2003, 08:31:22 AM »

And because it is a movie everybody can understand it the way he wants, that is one of the biggest strengh of OUATIA, look a this forum!!!
And Because it is a movie and not the reality, I think there is no end to this discussion....

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Walter
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« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2003, 05:19:21 PM »

Walter, sorry, maybe I'm nuts, but can't understand what makes you so sure about the dream definitely coming after the smile. why shouldn't it be vice versa?

please remember that the first to mention the dream thing was Leone himself.


Well, because he lies down in that last scene, and the entire scene seem to splice together the incidents in the movie. And I have always thought that the dream discussion only was about the 1968-segment, and that segment mnust - if the movie was told chronologically - come after the smile. That is how I see the story. It is obviously not the only way to view it.  


Only Sergio Leone himself knew what he meant. On the commentary track on the dvd, it is said the the dream theory was suggested to Leone, and he was open to it.
Perhaps he just wanted to leave the possibility open?

I choose not to venture down that road of "it was only a dream", however.  

« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 05:20:26 PM by Walter » Logged

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Il Buono
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« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2003, 10:08:50 AM »

Here's how I see it.  Noodles goes to an opium bar after he betrayed his friends.  Maybe this sounds cliché, but drugs are basically meant to escape from everyday life, right?  So maybe it's a symbolic representation for the rest of his life that he spends escaping from his past.

From the moment he betrayes his friends and escapes in opium, his life is nothing more than a unimportant blur, filled with sorrow and maybe regret.  Maybe the last time Noodles ever was happy was when he was on opium.  Hence the smile.

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aaronson
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2003, 12:59:51 PM »

.

From the moment he betrayes his friends and escapes in opium, his life is nothing more than a unimportant blur, filled with sorrow and maybe regret.  Maybe the last time Noodles ever was happy was when he was on opium.  Hence the smile.
Great !

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Walter
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« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2003, 03:14:14 PM »

Here's how I see it.  Noodles goes to an opium bar after he betrayed his friends.  Maybe this sounds cliché, but drugs are basically meant to escape from everyday life, right?  So maybe it's a symbolic representation for the rest of his life that he spends escaping from his past.

From the moment he betrayes his friends and escapes in opium, his life is nothing more than a unimportant blur, filled with sorrow and maybe regret.  Maybe the last time Noodles ever was happy was when he was on opium.  Hence the smile.

I agree with the first part. He escapes into drugs, and later he escapes his life altogether. This might also explain the sleepy or druggy feel everything i 1968 has - his escape is like the drug. Nothing really mean much on drugs, and nothing really mean much to Noodles anymore, except for the memories. I like that part.  

But I can't make the last part fit. The last time he was happy was when he was on opium? Opium sure makes you escape reality, but it is not a stimulating drug.

I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I don't agree.

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Il Buono
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« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2003, 02:40:28 AM »

Yeah, I know, I don't really 100% buy the last part either.  It's just a theory, and I have no idea what opium does to the human mind...

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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2003, 11:35:22 AM »

so there's Noodles and the opium, the potsmoking GMV in FFDM, in both cases Leone doesnt seem to be too concerned with the narcotic effects of each drug, just that they're both a form of escapism

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« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2003, 06:58:02 PM »

so there's Noodles and the opium, the potsmoking GMV in FFDM, in both cases Leone doesnt seem to be too concerned with the narcotic effects of each drug, just that they're both a form of escapism

Leone's not really off the mark in any way,  even if probably wasn't too interested in being precise.  He was going for effects, I think, not teaching.

To put it simple, pot is a hallusinogenic drug. Mind-altering og mind-expanding, if you want. Not the heaviest of drugs, but not necessarily what the doctor would order for a psychotic maniac like Indio either.

Opium is a sedative drug, alledgely it leads to a hazy, sleepy and euphoric feeling, not too unlike dreaming. Heroin is based upon opium, but the effects are not the same, although there are common traits.

In terms of drugs, Noodles's choice is by far the most self-destructive one.      

There might be something in that, too. Noodles destroying himself willfully with drugs?


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cheem_2000
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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2003, 10:03:44 AM »

It is an interesting topic to discuss, but what people have got to remember about the idea of it being a dream to Noodles is that Sergio did not fully endorse or agree to this reason for Noodles' smile at the end.
Leone deliberately left the ending ambiguous.
'I say it here, I deny it there' was the comment translated from Italian that Sergio gave according to Prof Frayling.
To me it is pretty obvious why Noodles smiled. The opium had started to take effect and he was on another plane hence the soaring vocal music.

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Debby-2000
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« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2003, 09:48:26 AM »

Or maybe Noodles finally realizes, outside Bailey's home, after all and through his thick silly head that he raped the love of his life and betrayed his best friend, so he wasn't entitled to any revenge, but just deserved to die an old and loveless man.

And this realisation makes him young again, which is why we go back to the opium den at the end, a reborn self, who smiles and laughs at his own stupidity.

Let's hope so. What a fool.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2003, 09:51:42 AM by Debby-2000 » Logged
Cusser
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« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2004, 04:13:16 PM »

Personally, I don't think the 1968 portions are a dream.  Unless one thinks that 1933 Noodles could envision jet airplanes, color television, etc.  The film is tons better with all the scenes included as on the DVD.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2004, 05:08:15 PM »

I don't think they are a dream either, but the possibility maybe of perhaps glimpses into one of the possibilities of the future, much like in Charles Dickens' Christmas Carrol, Ebenezer Scrooge asks the Ghost of Christmas Future "Are these the shadows of the things that Will be, or are they shadows of the things that May be only?"

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jimmy conway
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« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2004, 05:08:47 AM »

hi i am from london
i love once upon atime in america
i think is realy good
if you are frm london north
please email me
i love films such as city of god and raging bull

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jimmy conway
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« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2004, 05:09:40 AM »

Or mayb
And this realisation makes him young again, which is why we go back to the opium den at the end, a reborn self, who smiles and laughs at his own stupidity.

Let's hope so. What a fool.

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