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« on: January 25, 2007, 11:56:16 AM »

Anachronisms: One of the gravestones near the "unknown" grave in the cemetery has the deceased dying in 1867, two years after the Civil War.


Anachronisms: Tuco examines a Belgian 10.4mm Galand revolver in the gun shop. The gun however was not invented until two years after the Civil War.


Anachronisms: When Tuco is hanging on a tree, a motor vehicle is moving quickly from left to right on the far mountain.


Revealing mistakes: Someone is walking on the right hand side of Tuco s head after he shout "Blooondie" from 2:47:49 to 2:47:59 at the level of his ear.


Continuity: Angel Eyes' grip on his spoon changes from overhand to underhand back to overhand while he chats with the rat.


Revealing mistakes: When the carriage is seen first in the desert you can see someone steering it.


Anachronisms: While Tuco and Blondie are under the bridge, in the background where the poles form a 'V', a car passes through the trees. (widescreen edition)


Revealing mistakes: When Tuco and Blondie seek Angel-eyes in the deserted town, they discover a note that says "see you later idiots" but if you look closely at the paper, it is actually a page of the film script.


Continuity: Before the final gunfight, as Tuco is standing in the circle, he lowers his hand to the level of his pistol. His hand was already there in a previous shot.


Continuity: When Blondie and Tuco are carrying the explosives on the stretcher, at first the stretcher is missing several wooden slats, but as they approach the bridge, it changes into a completely different stretcher with no missing slats.


Continuity: Tuco has Blondie put his head through a noose and the way the rope is looped around the roof beam changes after the cannonball strike.


Continuity: The noose around Tuco's neck at the end changes tightness between shots.


Anachronisms: In the final scene where Blondie shoots the noose around Tuco's neck, the rifle he uses is a Sharps Model 1874 carbine. The rifle would not be invented until a full 12 years after the movie takes place.


Anachronisms: Angel Eyes mentions the treatment of Union prisoners in Andersonville Camp. The movie takes place during the Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in March of 1862, and Andersonville did not open until February, 1864.


Anachronisms: In one scene, Tuco praises Lee and damns Grant out loud to the troops coming out of the desert. However, the movie takes place during Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in February- March of 1862, when both Lee and Grant were unknowns at this time. Lee didn't assume command of the Army of Northern Virginia until June 1862. Grant was a relative unknown when he won his first victory at Fort Donelson in February, 1862, hardly enough time for Tuco and Blondy to know who he was. That being said, in another scene, Angel Eyes mentions Confederate abuses in Andersonville Prison, which only became a prison in November 1863.


Revealing mistakes: The black powder cap and ball revolver Angel Eyes carries pre-dates the bullets (cartridges) in his pistol belt which would be useless to him.


Anachronisms: The Union soldiers at the bridge have Gatling guns, a weapon which only saw limited service in Union hands during the last months of the Civil War, and were not present during the New Mexico campaign of 1862.


Revealing mistakes: Winchester lever-action rifles such as Blondie's cannot be fitted with telescope sights because they eject their empty cartridge cases straight upward. Early Winchesters were in any case notoriously inaccurate and short-ranged. They were valued for their high ammo capacity and rapid firing.


Errors in geography: In the middle of New Mexico, Tuco shows Blondie a map and suggests they could head northwest through Texas, but all parts of Texas are either east or south of New Mexico.


Revealing mistakes: Blondie, Angel-eyes, and Tuco all carry cartridge-converted revolvers, in other words, percussion cap-and ball pistols modified to use metallic self-contained cartridges, and are shown using loading gates and bored-through cylinders. In every close-up on a pistol, such as the final gunfight, all of the revolvers have their original cylinders, complete with capped nipples, and all lack ejector rods.


Factual errors: When the two armies battle at the bridge, the Confederates are using the flag with the blue criss-cross on the red field. This is not the Confederate national flag, rather it is the banner of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. It would have been in battles in the east, not in the west.


Revealing mistakes: When Blondie says, "Your spurs," and shoots the last of the three ambushers in the hotel, the man falls backwards, knocking the wall and making it wobble.


Factual errors: When Tuco is about to be hung the second time (in the town of Valverde), the executioner reads out loud "wanted in 15 counties of this state". However, New Mexico was still a territory in 1862 and did not become a state until 50 years later in 1912.


Anachronisms: The driver of a covered wagon fleeing town with his wife and son, appeared to be wearing a wristwatch on his right wrist. These were considered effeminate and did not become popular with men until the 20th Century.


Continuity: When Tuco and Blondie are carrying the crate with the explosives on the stretcher, it has turned about 90 degrees between the two shots when the music starts playing.


Crew or equipment visible: When the rhythmic music stops and Tuco is choking after screaming "Blondie", a person walking to the left can be seen on the left side of Tuco's face. You can also see a sun reflection on something carried by the person.


Continuity: Blondie and Tuco walk down the street of the desert town to confront the Angel Eyes' gang. At the beginning, their shadows are projected to behind them. Next shot, the shadows are projected in front of them.


Anachronisms: Blondie and Tuco use dynamite to blow up a bridge in 1862, despite the fact that dynamite was not invented by Alfred Nobel until 1866.


Anachronisms: Blondie's rifle is a Winchester, which was not available when the movie is meant to take place.


Anachronisms: When Blondie and Tuco plant the explosives to raze the bridge, they set numerous bundles of TNT. The bundles are daisy-chained together with a single fuse. However, when the bridge explodes, it is a single large explosion, not a series of smaller, in-line explosions that would indicate the fuse burning through one bundle after another.


Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): During the bridge scene with the explosives, the fuse is often seen in the water. This would mean it could not burn.

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2007, 05:46:07 PM »

I think most of these "flubs" have been noted here before, plus a couple not even on the (copy and pasted?) list.

It doesn't make the film any less brilliant however.

And at least one of these "flubs" is a "glub":

Revealing mistakes: Winchester lever-action rifles such as Blondie's cannot be fitted with telescope sights because they eject their empty cartridge cases straight upward. Early Winchesters were in any case notoriously inaccurate and short-ranged. They were valued for their high ammo capacity and rapid firing.

Rather more revealing and more complicated answer: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1680.30

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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2007, 06:01:14 PM »

I'm never very interested in continuity errors, but anachronisms and the like are bones I enjoy gnawing on.

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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2007, 09:54:58 PM »

The only flubs that I noticed w/out any clarification dealt with the bridge scene: the wet fuse, the lack of multiple explosions, and the fact that the bridge should have exploded well before it actually did. To be honest, it doesn't take away from the movie at all. I love the bridge scene, albeit somewhat flawed, but then again, who I am to call out any flaws or flubs in a Leone movie.

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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 09:09:06 PM »

Jeez a big list, lol, I'll only comment on the Anachronisims (I can't resist):

Anachronisms: One of the gravestones near the "unknown" grave in the cemetery has the deceased dying in 1867, two years after the Civil War.

Never noticed perhaps some hasty burial detail was trying to make a 2 but ran out of paint and made a 7. ;-)

Anachronisms: Tuco examines a Belgian 10.4mm Galand revolver in the gun shop. The gun however was not invented until two years after the Civil War.

Well here we have a case where the gun was patented in 1867 doesn't mean that a case of prototypes didn't get shipped to the US. It takes some time to develop a patent no?

Anachronisms: When Tuco is hanging on a tree, a motor vehicle is moving quickly from left to right on the far mountain.

This is a 1966 film, its not shot in 1862 of course there are going to be some mistakes, but before the "pause" & rewind button who would ever have  noticed ;-)


Anachronisms: While Tuco and Blondie are under the bridge, in the background where the poles form a 'V', a car passes through the trees. (widescreen edition)

Again this is a 1966 film, its not shot in 1862 of course there are going to be some mistakes, but before the "pause" & rewind button who would ever have  noticed ;-)


Anachronisms: In the final scene where Blondie shoots the noose around Tuco's neck, the rifle he uses is a Sharps Model 1874 carbine. The rifle would not be invented until a full 12 years after the movie takes place.

There is still some debate about this (check the Clint's Guns thread on the Eastwood board), anybody who knows about guns and gunsmiths should know that gunsmiths can easily build  or modify their own versions of weaponry, its not rocket science, you can take a Sharps or a Spencer barrel and put it on your own reciever mechanisim and use your own stock etc., etc.

Anachronisms: Angel Eyes mentions the treatment of Union prisoners in Andersonville Camp. The movie takes place during the Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in March of 1862, and Andersonville did not open until February, 1864.

This one is true, but Leone was making a statement, in fact common practice in the early part of the Civil War was to parole prisoners and let them go after promising not to take up arms again for a certain period of time, again most everyone knows the name Andersonville and the images associated with it, if AE would have said the name of some actual extant camp nobody would know what he was talking about.

Anachronisms: In one scene, Tuco praises Lee and damns Grant out loud to the troops coming out of the desert. However, the movie takes place during Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in February- March of 1862, when both Lee and Grant were unknowns at this time. Lee didn't assume command of the Army of Northern Virginia until June 1862. Grant was a relative unknown when he won his first victory at Fort Donelson in February, 1862, hardly enough time for Tuco and Blondy to know who he was. That being said, in another scene, Angel Eyes mentions Confederate abuses in Andersonville Prison, which only became a prison in November 1863.

Again it has more impact to the humor using Lee & Grant, what do we expect him to say McDowell and Johnson (who the hell are they?), lol not quite the same effect.

Revealing mistakes: The black powder cap and ball revolver Angel Eyes carries pre-dates the bullets (cartridges) in his pistol belt which would be useless to him.

They had convertable systems so that they could toggel back & forth by switching out cylinders, we did a whole thread on this too, do a search (Blondie's Gun)

Anachronisms: The Union soldiers at the bridge have Gatling guns, a weapon which only saw limited service in Union hands during the last months of the Civil War, and were not present during the New Mexico campaign of 1862.

There is a lot of debate on this too, I did some research on Civil War ordinance and apparently though the regular US troops saw limited use the private companies raise by "money bags" out fitted their owm compaines with all sorts of experimental weaponry so some prior Gatling prototypes were actually present earlier in the war, records are sketchy.

Revealing mistakes: Winchester lever-action rifles such as Blondie's cannot be fitted with telescope sights because they eject their empty cartridge cases straight upward. Early Winchesters were in any case notoriously inaccurate and short-ranged. They were valued for their high ammo capacity and rapid firing.

Here again we did a nice thread see above, the armorer (Benito Stefanelli) and Leone went the extra yard trying to make a Yellow Boy Winchester look like a Henry even puttimg the telescopic site on the side for the very reason mentioned above and using disguising camera angles.

Errors in geography: In the middle of New Mexico, Tuco shows Blondie a map and suggests they could head northwest through Texas, but all parts of Texas are either east or south of New Mexico.

Actually at this point in the film they are south of Ft. Craig and actually have to head Northwest (The Sierra Magadalenas are Northwest of the fort ) around the mountians & the fort before they have to go all across Texas.

Revealing mistakes: Blondie, Angel-eyes, and Tuco all carry cartridge-converted revolvers, in other words, percussion cap-and ball pistols modified to use metallic self-contained cartridges, and are shown using loading gates and bored-through cylinders. In every close-up on a pistol, such as the final gunfight, all of the revolvers have their original cylinders, complete with capped nipples, and all lack ejector rods.

Only AE that I remember,  and its a simple matter of switching out the cylinders as mentioned above not a mistake if you know about these conversions which apparently whoever posted in the trivia did not.

Factual errors: When the two armies battle at the bridge, the Confederates are using the flag with the blue criss-cross on the red field. This is not the Confederate national flag, rather it is the banner of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. It would have been in battles in the east, not in the west.

This is true, but again like Lee & Grant what are you going to show something eveyone world wide will recognise or something obscure for the reinactors or purists?  By the way the Sibley Brigade's  battle flag was red with a single white star (lone star for Texas ;-))


Factual errors: When Tuco is about to be hung the second time (in the town of Valverde), the executioner reads out loud "wanted in 15 counties of this state". However, New Mexico was still a territory in 1862 and did not become a state until 50 years later in 1912.

Thats because all the hangings were in Texas, duuhhhh! (see I got the timeline down thread) ;-)

Anachronisms: The driver of a covered wagon fleeing town with his wife and son, appeared to be wearing a wristwatch on his right wrist. These were considered effeminate and did not become popular with men until the 20th Century.

There are a lot of Mexicans & Native Americans in New Mexico they do wear a lot of silver & turquoise wrist bands no? These are nit picky things.

Anachronisms: Blondie and Tuco use dynamite to blow up a bridge in 1862, despite the fact that dynamite was not invented by Alfred Nobel until 1866.

The boxes say explosives not dynamite, black powder sticks, the Chinese made them for centuries, lol.

Anachronisms: Blondie's rifle is a Winchester, which was not available when the movie is meant to take place.

Actually its a Winchester that's being diguised as a Henry see above, they know about it not a mistake.

Anachronisms: When Blondie and Tuco plant the explosives to raze the bridge, they set numerous bundles of TNT. The bundles are daisy-chained together with a single fuse. However, when the bridge explodes, it is a single large explosion, not a series of smaller, in-line explosions that would indicate the fuse burning through one bundle after another.

Minor quibble, at least it was a real explosion mot some Hollywood fx of exploding burning oil barrels

Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): During the bridge scene with the explosives, the fuse is often seen in the water. This would mean it could not burn.

Where do they get these guys that post this stuff?Huh Anybody work in a mine, there is a lot of dripping water, you know  what they did back then they "coated" the fuse with bees wax, that would make it somewhat water proof.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 09:15:33 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2007, 02:51:23 PM »


Anachronisms: Angel Eyes mentions the treatment of Union prisoners in Andersonville Camp. The movie takes place during the Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in March of 1862, and Andersonville did not open until February, 1864.

This one is true, but Leone was making a statement, in fact common practice in the early part of the Civil War was to parole prisoners and let them go after promising not to take up arms again for a certain period of time, again most everyone knows the name Andersonville and the images associated with it, if AE would have said the name of some actual extant camp nobody would know what he was talking about.

Anachronisms: In one scene, Tuco praises Lee and damns Grant out loud to the troops coming out of the desert. However, the movie takes place during Confederate invasion of New Mexico Territory in February- March of 1862, when both Lee and Grant were unknowns at this time. Lee didn't assume command of the Army of Northern Virginia until June 1862. Grant was a relative unknown when he won his first victory at Fort Donelson in February, 1862, hardly enough time for Tuco and Blondy to know who he was. That being said, in another scene, Angel Eyes mentions Confederate abuses in Andersonville Prison, which only became a prison in November 1863.

Again it has more impact to the humor using Lee & Grant, what do we expect him to say McDowell and Johnson (who the hell are they?), lol not quite the same effect.


Factual errors: When the two armies battle at the bridge, the Confederates are using the flag with the blue criss-cross on the red field. This is not the Confederate national flag, rather it is the banner of Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia. It would have been in battles in the east, not in the west.

This is true, but again like Lee & Grant what are you going to show something eveyone world wide will recognise or something obscure for the reinactors or purists?  By the way the Sibley Brigade's  battle flag was red with a single white star (lone star for Texas ;-))

These are deliberate anachronisms and therefore come under the heading of poetic license and exist for the very reasons Cigar Joe points out. CJ, thanks for taking the time to go through that list. Leoneland was not invented for accountants, bean counters, Philistines. "Ecstatic truths" are not for them.

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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2007, 03:32:53 AM »

Thanks dj,  "poetic license" I knew there was a term for what I was getting at. Afro

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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2007, 12:17:27 PM »

You could also add the cooking stove (with two pots on it) in Angel Eyes's barracks at the Betterville Prison scene. At first, the metal door has no vertical slots. After Tucoenters, the same stove has a door with 5 vertical slots.

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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 07:32:26 AM »

You could also add the cooking stove (with two pots on it) in Angel Eyes's barracks at the Betterville Prison scene. At first, the metal door has no vertical slots. After Tucoenters, the same stove has a door with 5 vertical slots.
good observing clinton  Wink 

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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 04:18:58 PM »

Quote
Anachronisms: The driver of a covered wagon fleeing town with his wife and son, appeared to be wearing a wristwatch on his right wrist. These were considered effeminate and did not become popular with men until the 20th Century.

What part of the movie is this in?

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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 04:34:06 PM »

What part of the movie is this in?

When AE and Blondie arrive at the bombed out town before Blondie meets TUCO again. All the townsfolk are fleeing and a covered wagon goes past. I'm not convinced its watch anyway. Looks like a wrist band of some description...

ICE

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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 08:54:48 PM »

Just enjoy the movie for what it is.

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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 10:19:59 PM »

Just enjoy the movie for what it is.
Afro

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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 10:26:11 PM »

cj, I never figured you for such a Leone apologist  Tongue

I am the opposite of dj (surprise surprise), I don't care much about anachronisms but continuity errors annoy me.

though as cj says, it's a whole different world now with home video and rewind buttons and HD and dvr's; used to be you saw a movie once or twice in a theater and that was that. maybe once a few years later when it was re-released or shown on TV. I am sure studios are much more careful about continuity now.

or, maybe nor. On that note, I remember reading this article in The Journal three years ago:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703909804575124261929067110.html


    March 25, 2010

In Movies, to Err Is Human, To Nitpick Is Even More So
A Committed Cadre of Carpers Catches Flubs in Flicks; Rikki Rosen’s Watching
By BARRY NEWMAN


ST. LOUIS—Johnny Depp’s fingernails are dirty when he gets drunk on rum and passes out in the movie “Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl.” When he wakes up and brings his hands to his face, the fingernails are clean.

Rikki Rosen caught that. She reported it to a Web site in Britain called Movie Mistakes, which does nothing but list mistakes in movies. While Mr. Depp inspects his pirate crew, the sun shines from different directions between cuts. Ms. Rosen also caught that mistake. When Mr. Depp bites into an apple, the bite mark changes shape from shot to shot. Ms. Rosen caught that one, too.

In all, she has reported 293 mistakes in the pirate movie to Movie Mistakes. She has also reported 3,695 mistakes in 181 other movies—including the bit in “War of the Worlds” when Tom Cruise yells “We’re under attack!” and it’s obvious that the inspection sticker previously on his van’s windshield is no longer there.

Ms. Rosen is a 48-year-old with red hair and a bad cold. Her inner-suburban living room contains couches and cat baskets; an old Sony television with an Xbox under it; tea cups, a computer and stacks of DVDs. At last count, she was Movie Mistake’s No. 2 contributor, behind someone called “Hamster” with 4,413.

“Sure, a movie can have mistakes,” she said, curled up on her couch one morning. “People are imperfect. But sometimes it’s just one after the other after the other. It smacks of not caring. These things should not be blatant on the screen.” Ms. Rosen suppressed a cough. “So I look,” she said. “I look at everything.”

All movie sets have nitpickers. They were “script girls,” early on. Now they’re “script supervisors.”

They ward off wobbles that make movies less believable. But the Internet has stirred up a nest of similarly obsessed volunteers. They nitpick the nitpickers.

Jon Sandys, 31, founder of Movie Mistakes, posted a few gems on the Web in 1996 and asked people to send more. Now he lists 85,000, among them the Cessna in “Terminator 3” marked “N3035C” on the ground and “N3973F” in the air.

At IMDb, his huge rival, “goofs” rank in the top pages viewed by 57 million monthly visitors. “It’s smart people making connections,” says Keith Simanton, the site’s editor.

Clicking the names of script supervisors leads to lists of every mistake reported for every movie they’ve ever worked on. “They think they see things nobody else sees—it makes them feel clever,” says Sharon Watt, 32, a script supervisor in New York. “I can explain every one of my mistakes.”

Like this one: In “Precious,” a 2010 Oscar winner, Gabourey Sidibe steals some fried chicken and runs from a restaurant leaving her notebook behind. In the next scene, she has a notebook again.

In the script, someone gives her a new notebook. The moment was filmed exactly in keeping with the script. “We shot it,” says Ms. Watt. But disharmony arose in the production. Ms. Watt left. Three script supervisors succeeded her. In the final cut, the moment when Precious gets a new notebook is gone.

“The one person you don’t want to change on a shoot is the script supervisor,” Ms. Watt says. “A movie is like a jigsaw puzzle, and you’re the only one who has the cover of the box.”

Script supervisors keep thick logs of props, locations and costumes. Scenes aren’t shot in order. A bruise might have to look old in the morning and fresh in the afternoon. Actors ought to sync the same words with the same actions in each take. The idea is to give an editor film that can be spliced into a coherent whole.

Yet when a collar button is missing in an actor’s finest performance, an editor will usually forget the button and go for the performance.

“We’re not assuming that people who watch DVDs will keep going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth,” says Michael Taylor, a New York script supervisor turned editor.

Mr. Taylor hasn’t met Rikki Rosen—who was in her living room, feeding “Jaws” into her Xbox. The credits fade to a close up of a boy at a beach party. Behind him is a guy in a long-sleeve shirt. In the next shot, the sleeves are short.

Ms. Rosen hit the pause button and said, “See!”

“Jaws” was scarily flawless when she saw it as a teenager in Brooklyn. “I didn’t go swimming all summer,” Ms. Rosen says. Eleven years ago, she moved to St. Louis, where her husband is a salesman and she illustrates school materials. Her three growing sons watched a “Jaws” DVD over and over, and so did she.

The more she watched, the more mistakes jumped out—156 to be exact—and the worst of them are those yellow barrels the shark yanks off Quint’s boat in the final petrifying sequence:

“Look—two barrels on deck,” Ms. Rosen said, stopping the action and starting it again. “But here—three. Now two on the boat, three in water. Three on the boat, two in the water.”

The more mistakes she saw, the less scary “Jaws” became. Ms. Rosen calls that realization “cathartic.” When she isn’t watching horror movies, Ms. Rosen tries to keep her disbelief suspended. But sloppy moviemakers, in her opinion, won’t let her.

“Certain people have to do a better job,” she said, sipping tea. “One of my sons said to me, ‘Ma, you should be one of these people. You have this eye.’ ”

To prove it, she teed up “Some Like It Hot,” the all-time-great comedy with 51 IMDb goofs. Ms. Rosen had seen it once, years ago.

Instantly, she caught the broken (then unbroken) hearse window and the oddly leaky coffin. She got the rearranged beach chairs, and Marilyn Monroe’s disappearing bra strap.

But when the girls in the band run across the sand for a swim, Ms. Rosen missed the mountainous backdrop, which reveals that the movie was shot in California, not Florida. “I wasn’t looking,” she said, letting out a laugh. “I got carried away with the story.”

Well, nobody’s perfect.

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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 11:41:17 PM »

This may be biased, but I'll give an example of one of my favourite movies - Commando (1985):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzT_F6X4O9w

At 39:58 and 41:50, the car is smashed on its left side.
At 41:57 to 42:03, the car is brand new again.

Do I give a shit? No
Why? Because the rest of the movie is too good to have it put down by a dumb technical error like that.

What makes a movie are the story and characters, and it should be these things our attention should be focused towards. Now, I'm not saying technical aspects aren't important, but we go to the movies to be entertained and this involves our interest being invested in the characters and the story. Nitpicking like this will only take the enjoyment out of the experience.

Another example - Rocky V (1990):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-FnFt9Fxdo

At 0:08, 0:09, the bruise is on the left side of Rocky Jr.'s face.
At 3:31, the bruise has moved to his right side.

I mean, am I watching the movie to see if a bruise has shifted on his face, or am I watching it because I'm interested in seeing the consequences of Rocky ignoring his son to train a boxer who will eventually turn against him.

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