Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??

[Banjo]

And of course Mortimer was like a fatherly figure to Manco.

[dave jenkins]

I think M went to X with Midnight Cowboy, grindhouse & drive-in fare usually was R, and everything else was G. They started building the sub-ratings (PG,XXX) from there.

Just pulled this off wikipedia, and it accords with my memory:

Original ratings

The original movie ratings (in use 1968–1970) consisted of:

    * Rated G: General Audiences. All ages admitted...no matter what
    * Rated M: Suggested for Mature Audiences. Parental discretion advised.
    * Rated R: Restricted. Persons under 16 are not admitted unless accompanied by parent or adult guardian.
    * Rated X: Persons under 17 not admitted.

Originally, the rating system was to have three classification levels ending with Restricted (similar to the rating system used in most Canadian Provinces at the time) however, pressure from theatre owners influenced the MPAA to create a film rating (X) exclusively for adults to protect theatre owners from complaints and legal procedures. Initially, the X rating wasn't trademarked: under the plan, anyone not submitting his or her film for rating could self-apply the X (or any other symbol or description, except one trademarked by the rating program).

The M rating is replaced

Many parents were confused as to whether M-rated films contained more mature content than those rated R. This was especially because during the pre-rating years of 1965 to 1968, an earlier form of crude classification allowed more graphic content to be included so long as the film's advertising bore the notation "Suggested for Mature Audiences" (often abbreviated as "SMA"). Some parents even mistakenly thought that an R rating was less serious than a M rating. This confusion led to its replacement in 1970 by the designation GP, for General Patronage:

    * Rated GP: All Ages Admitted/Parental Guidance Suggested

The G in GP was meant to designate that the film had no age restrictions on audience admissions (as in the G rating, "All Ages Admitted"), while the P was to inform audiences that although no ages would be restricted, the discretion of parents was suggested. (The auditory similarity between G and GP soon caused this designation to be further revised into the PG rating, an acronym of Parental Guidance.)

[Man with no dame]

Good work! Most of those films are laughably tame, now, compared to what you see today. Seem to remember a trailer with Chuck Heston back when he was head of the guild, in which he explained the change over to the new system. Kinda like a 60's version of a WWII VD film. Once again thanx for clarifying my memory.

[Rubio]

It's my favorite of the three for sure. Mostly because of Indio and Mortimer. Monco was probably my least favorite of the three characters that Clint played though, but he is cool too.

[Huey]

I would rate this one first because it has the best storyline of the three and the whole genre's most memorable villain, indeed the most memorable gang of villains, although it is LVC who ambles away with the picture.  GBU, like OUTW, was an epic so not as directly comparable with FDM.  GBU had better cinematography, I think, and was well served by all of Clint, LVC and Eli.  But I must come back to the storyline which in GBU was essentially very simple and rather predictable once the three main characters and the mysterious Bill Carson were established.  In FDM, the latent motive of Mortimer provides a brilliant sub-plot which transcends what would otherwise be a straightforward tale of bounty hunters seeking and infiltrating a gang of bandits.  FDM also has fascinating aspects like Mortimer's arsenal and the myriad of characters making up Indio's gang.

Plus, it came before GBU and it established the stylistic impact that was hinted at, but not completely achieved, in FOD; and was inherited by GBU and OUTW.  FDM was a truly ground-breaking movie.

As an aside, I agree with Rubio's comment about Clint in FDM.  I thought Manco was his weakest character, completely overshadowed by Mortimer to the point of being a useful accessory.  He was much better in GBU where he worked well with Eli, these two complementing each other as "good" and ugly counterpoints to the bad.

[Rubio]

As an aside, I agree with Rubio's comment about Clint in FDM.  I thought Manco was his weakest character, completely overshadowed by Mortimer to the point of being a useful accessory.  He was much better in GBU where he worked well with Eli, these two complementing each other as "good" and ugly counterpoints to the bad.

Right on. Although, I'd say Eli slightly overshadows Clint in GBU but it's nowhere near the amount that Cleef did in FAFDM.

[El_Chuncho]

FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

great characters in a well-paced, brilliantly layered film which gets better every time you watch it.
I saw it on telly as a kid over christmas and they had the 3 films on over three nights (christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day as I remember). At the time this is the one I most connected with and it remains so to this day, probably because of the score and Gian Maria Volonte's performance.

its far and away the one I watch most.

[johnk]

Each one has its own merits ............Fistful of Dollars with its raw basic style...............For a few Dollars for its style and GBU for its total Self Indulgence.

[drinkanddestroy]

I just saw FAFDM again (with Frayling's commentary). What an amazing movie, it gets better with age. The town of El Paso is simply beautiful, easily my favorite Western set of all-time.

I had a few comments and questions on the movie, and since I prefer using old threads rather than starting new threads unless absolutely necessary, I figured I'll post my thoughts here:

1) Some things you don't notice till after multiple viewings: in the scene where we cut back and forth between Monco and Mortimer looking at the WANTED poster of Indio, notice that during Monco's montage, his eyes move to the line "$10,000 Reward"; then, when we cut to Mortimer's montage, his eyes move to the line "El Indio... DEAD OR ALIVE." It's a wonderful, subtle point that you can't pick up on until after multiple viewings, but it's a nice little hint there: Monco is focused on the reward money, while Mortimer is focused on killing Indio.

2) The prison break scene is done so well; in classic AW's, you might have one guy pull a six-shooter on a sheriff and voila -- prison break! But here, the scene is handled with the intricacy it deserves: this prison break took careful planning, there are many guards, and Indio's gang has planned for it all, using strategy of first killing the guards silently with knives so they can break in, then blasting the guards on the inside, then heading into the office to kill the warden, etc. It's a great scene, handled with the respect it deserves.
That sort of thing gives the movie the proper feel: this is taken seriously; when shit is done lazily, like one guy pulling a pistol on one incompetent sheriff and the prison break being over in 60 seconds,  it just isn't the same experience watching it.  Ditto with the introductions of the first two characters as well: Leone could have taken care of all 3 introductions and gotten the plot going in 5 minutes, but these elaborate, wonderfully constructed scenes make the movie what it is. The scenes which introduce us to the two bounty hunters -- Mortimer in Tucumcari, Monco in White Rocks -- let you know immediately that this is gonna be a very different kind of movie. We've all seen so many duels in Westerns, but as soon as you see the Tucumcari and White Rocks duels at the beginning of this movie, it immediately lets you know that something very special is about to happen here; these duels are simply in a different league than all the duels we've seen in other Westerns.



3) another nice little touch: when Nino, Cuchillo, Groggy, and Wild come to El Paso to plan the bank robbery, we see them drinking beer at the saloon. Usually, people drink hard stuff in Leone Westerns, but here they are drinking beer. Well, we learn pretty soon that they are on an important mission -- that's why they are trying not to make a scene, and leave the saloon quietly when Mortimer tries provoking Wild -- so I guess it makes sense that they;d just be having a beer: they are on an important job, and can't drink hard stuff and get wasted. (Maybe the fact that they are drinking beer is the first thing tipped off Mortimer that they are here on a discreet mission -- and he tried provoking Wild just to confirm his suspicions?) Again, a nice little touch that you may not pick up on until after multiple viewings. Like a great big puzzle, so many little pieces have to be carefully put together, just right, in the making of a great movie. Besides the great director and great actors, the composer, the production design by Carlo Simi, thee nice little touches we've mentioned in these scenes. Many movies have great performances, or a great score, or a great story, but what separates the really great movies from the rest of the pack is putting all these elements together: having the great director, the great performances, the great music, the great production design, all this stuff put together, and then you have a masterpiece!

Now I have two questions:

A) We've seen how Mortimer got to El Paso: he figured that Indio would try to rob the biggest bank in the West. But why is Monco here? Has he come to the same conclusion? We never really see that explained. At the end of the scene where the 4 members of Indio's gang are staking out the bank, we see that Monco is also looking around with binoculars -- so he is aware of what's going on as well, and I guess that's the surprise? That only when we see Monco holding the bincoulars, looking at Mortimer, do we realize that Monco has had the same thought process as Mortimer all along -- he has also figured out that Indio will try to rob the biggest bank, which is in El Paso, and that's why Monco is in El Paso?



B)   what was Monco so upset at Mortimer about, when he tried breaking off the partnership? It seems that indio's plans surprised them; Monco said that Mortimer was supposed to have  been the "one who had it all worked out,"  and that "I've been reasonable with no results," to which Mortimer responded that "we only knew the Santa Cruz part of his plan." But I don't understand -- didn't Indio had tell the gang -- including Monco -- that Monco would be creating the diversion with the Santa Cruz bank robbery, so that the rest of the gang could take care of the El Paso bank robbery? But based on the quizzical looks on the faces of Monco and Mortimer during the robbery, and based on their nasty comments to each other afterward, it's clear that something about Indio's plans surprised them, and I really can't figure out what it was. Seemed pretty clear to me that Indio had told Monco that the El Paso robbery was going to take place as soon as Monco could get the El Paso Sheriff and his deputies to leave for Santa Cruz

[cigar joe]

For B I think they both figured that the gang would enter the bank from the front door, not blow a hole in the rear wall, that is the reason for the quizzical looks.

[drinkanddestroy]

For B I think they both figured that the gang would enter the bank from the front door, not blow a hole in the rear wall, that is the reason for the quizzical looks.

so what? the bottom line is that Monco was there when Indio announced the plan: he knew the gang was going to rob the bank; they indeed robbed the bank, and now they are fleeing to Los Palmeros, where Monco is gonna meet them. Seems to me like everything is going perfectly to plan, just like Indio said; I can't possibly understand why Monco should be so angry at Mortimer. The fact that the blew the back wall, how should that affect anything? the only theoretical argument I can hear is that Monco and Mortimer had planned to kill the gang while they were in the bank; but now that the gang uses a different method, of blowing the back wall, they are unable to kill them. So now Monco and Mortimer's plan has failed. I am not sure I'd agree with that argument, but even if I did, that still doesn't explain why Monco would be angry at Mortimer. (Monco is the one on the inside; if anything, Monco should be the one with knowledge of how the bank job would be carried out).

[El_Chuncho]

so what? the bottom line is that Monco was there when Indio announced the plan: he knew the gang was going to rob the bank; they indeed robbed the bank, and now they are fleeing to Los Palmeros, where Monco is gonna meet them. Seems to me like everything is going perfectly to plan, just like Indio said; I can't possibly understand why Monco should be so angry at Mortimer. The fact that the blew the back wall, how should that affect anything? the only theoretical argument I can hear is that Monco and Mortimer had planned to kill the gang while they were in the bank; but now that the gang uses a different method, of blowing the back wall, they are unable to kill them. So now Monco and Mortimer's plan has failed. I am not sure I'd agree with that argument, but even if I did, that still doesn't explain why Monco would be angry at Mortimer. (Monco is the one on the inside; if anything, Monco should be the one with knowledge of how the bank job would be carried out).

But Manco didn't know that they were going to blow the back of the bank.

Remember he was only with the gang during the night of Sancho's release...after that he heads away with Blacky, Chico and Paco at Indio's request.
It is probably after they've gone that Indio tells the rest of the gang that they are going to go round the back of the bank instead of the more obvious frontal attack.
(Remember that Indio later tells Nino how he always knew that Manco was a bounty killer: He wouldn't have allowed Manco to be privy to every detail of the plan.)

As for Manco's anger, I think it's probably because he wasn't exactly "into" the idea of having a partner in the first place....

Remember how he tried to coerce Mortimer into leaving by getting the Chinese man to take his bag to the station?
He is obviously keen to be the only contestant in this particular game.

After the shootout at night Mortimer and Manco call a truce and the Colonel tries to get him on side, and finally (after much deliberation) persuades him to at least try his plan.
The plan however involves Manco taking ALL the risks (break Sancho Perez out of gaol, go undercover with Indio's band, kill 3 of them and pretend to rob the Santa Cruz bank etc)

In short, Manco (in his eyes anyway) has to do the dirty work while Mortimer waits in El Paso for the band to come to him and probably snipe the robbers from the comparative safety of his hotel window.

Therefore when finally the plan doesn't go the way Mortimer insisted it would, Manco is left feeling it's a  damn waste of time and that he'd probably have been better doing it on his own (as he had wanted to before their paths crossed).

That's my take on it anyway.

[El_Chuncho]

.....Just to add to DrinkandDestroy's notes on the fine details of Leone's work:

I love the way that Indio sends Manco off to Santa Cruz with Blacky, Chico and Paco who if you remember are who Groggy turns up with. In short, they are Groggy's men; he doesn't send any of his own crew.

I always got the feeling that Groggy is eyeing the throne and is from the start a bit disrespectful of Indio and a bit overfamiliar; laughing at Sancho Perez' imprisonment and saying quite deliberately that "a man who gets caught doesn't deserve respect eh?" in the full knowledge that Indio himself has spent some recent time in prison.

I think Indio realises that Groggy is also a danger so by casually sending Groggy's men off he weakens Groggy's powerbase...kills 2 birds with 1 stone (or 3 in this case).

[Cusser]

Some things you don't notice till after multiple viewings: in the scene where we cut back and forth between Monco and Mortimer looking at the WANTED poster of Indio, notice that during Monco's montage, his eyes move to the line "$10,000 Reward"; then, when we cut to Mortimer's montage, his eyes move to the line "El Indio... DEAD OR ALIVE." It's a wonderful, subtle point that you can't pick up on until after multiple viewings, but it's a nice little hint there: Monco is focused on the reward money, while Mortimer is focused on killing Indio.

My homage to that scene is about one minute into one of my safety videos.  The part preceding that is an overall homage to Leone.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_QeOvt9qEk

[drinkanddestroy]

My homage to that scene is about one minute into one of my safety videos.  The part preceding that is an overall homage to Leone.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_QeOvt9qEk

haha great work Cussboy, as always