Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 11, 2017, 06:33:19 AM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Duck, You Sucker (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  DYS soundtrack comparison
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] Go Down Print
Author Topic: DYS soundtrack comparison  (Read 43007 times)
uncknown
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406

What about me?


View Profile
« Reply #90 on: November 30, 2012, 02:45:22 PM »

del

« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 02:47:38 PM by uncknown » Logged

"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
uncknown
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406

What about me?


View Profile
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2012, 02:55:23 PM »

WHo's this Uncknown guy?

An authority. What Mike Siegel is to Peckingpah, I am to Leone/Morricone.
I do not claim to being immune from mistakes, but I know of what I speak.

Now, one last comment on DYS - the pub scene:

The music as it appears in the se dvd is correct. I saw DYS when it first came out in 1971. Numerous times (for the music).
The French version has different music, which appears to be incorrect. As previously mentioned, DYS was re-issued in Dolby Sterro in France in the 1980's. This necessitated re-mixing the score. Apparently, they used an incorrect cue for the scene where Sean shoots John. It's a jaunty take, totally inappropriate for such a dramatic scene (perhaps this take was meant for the first flashback?)

Stop fussing and enjoy this amazing score and film! Smiley
bruce marshall

Logged

"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
The clint
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 154


View Profile
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2012, 04:31:27 AM »

Now, one last comment on DYS - the pub scene:

The music as it appears in the se dvd is correct. I saw DYS when it first came out in 1971. Numerous times (for the music).
The French version has different music, which appears to be incorrect. As previously mentioned, DYS was re-issued in Dolby Sterro in France in the 1980's. This necessitated re-mixing the score. Apparently, they used an incorrect cue for the scene where Sean shoots John. It's a jaunty take, totally inappropriate for such a dramatic scene (perhaps this take was meant for the first flashback?)

Which pub scene are you talking about? The former or latter? If you're talking about the former, you'd be right. If you're talking about the latter, you're oh so wrong! I've seen the film numerous times in various incarnations on VHS, Laserdisc and DVD in English, French, German and Italian and they all contain the same take (track 15 on disc 2 of the expanded soundtrack) of the track which incidentally, only exists in mono or faked stereo! The SE version, as I stated earlier, has the beginning of track 1 on disc 1 badly spliced to track 13 on disc 2 which is something that would never have been done during scoring sessions and is obviously just a cheap fix.

I suspect it's because the best quality English language track John Kirk & Co. had access to was the edited 137 minute US release (all the restored bits of dialogue sound horrible on the SE, even inferior to the 2003 PAL DVD) which removed the long shot of David Warbeck nodding to John and thus had to resort to a similarly cheap edit. The French language version on the SE does have the original track, but that's because the French release of the film wasn't edited down, unlike the English version, and there was no need for the splice. The audio quality of the French version of the scene is indeed horrible as per the master they had access to, but at least it's the original track.

The only logical reason I can think of for why they didn't just use the already available complete stereo masters for Ennio Morricone's score for the film is that they would have to pay licensing fees to the Italian company that holds the rights for them, which they obviously opted not to do, cheap bastards!

Logged
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1546



View Profile
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2012, 07:45:45 AM »

The French language version on the SE does have the original track, but that's because the French release of the film wasn't edited down, unlike the English version, and there was no need for the splice. The audio quality of the French version of the scene is indeed horrible as per the master they had access to, but at least it's the original track.

Does that only refer to the French R2 release of DYS? I know my R1 DVD of DYS has French as an audio option on it. Hmm I might try testing that out this weekend if I get the chance.

Logged
noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5107


Lonesome Billy


View Profile WWW
« Reply #94 on: December 01, 2012, 07:51:32 AM »

An authority. What Mike Siegel is to Peckingpah, I am to Leone/Morricone.
I do not claim to being immune from mistakes, but I know of what I speak.

Dude, that was a rhetorical question.

Logged


New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
uncknown
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 406

What about me?


View Profile
« Reply #95 on: December 01, 2012, 02:23:28 PM »

i dislike rhetoric Cool

Splice marks heard on the soundtrack are sometimes a result of scenes being cut for different territories.
The pub scene where Sean kills John, was edited in the English language version for violence -one shot instead of two.

btw ALL the music on ALL the "Dolby Surround/Dolby Digital 5.1"versions is fake stereo.
some of the score is so drenched in reverb and echo as to make it almost unlistenable.
The French version has the best stereo mix but the overall best/most authentic version is the English mono (if you speak English).
I switch to the English stereo version for the 'final flashback' which is in true stereo - no doubt because it never existed before the dvd restoration so they could start from scratch.

if anyone wants to discuss this with me i would be more than happy
just p.m. me

and don't forget to
DUCK YOU SUCKER!
 Smiley

bruce

« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 02:28:18 PM by uncknown » Logged

"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8439

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2012, 05:08:55 PM »

@ the clint and uncknown

can each of you summarize your views on which is the correct music for the final flashback scene? I know it was discussed earlier, but, rather than wading through all those extensive posts on the first 7 pages, I am wondering if the two of you -- and anyone else that has a firm opinion -- can provide your opinion on the correct music for the final flashback scene?

Thanks  Afro

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
The clint
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 154


View Profile
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2012, 07:04:36 AM »

Splice marks heard on the soundtrack are sometimes a result of scenes being cut for different territories.
The pub scene where Sean kills John, was edited in the English language version for violence -one shot instead of two.

Apart from the mention of the cut for violence, in which case you're correct, I said the same thing here:

I suspect it's because the best quality English language track John Kirk & Co. had access to was the edited 137 minute US release ... which removed the long shot of David Warbeck nodding to John and thus had to resort to a similarly cheap edit. The French language version on the SE does have the original track, but that's because the French release of the film wasn't edited down, unlike the English version, and there was no need for the splice. The audio quality of the French version of the scene is indeed horrible as per the master they had access to, but at least it's the original track.

I'd also like to mention that the aforementioned French track on the SE corresponds (in this scene) to all Italian versions I've seen, the 1996 Laserdisc, the full English language track on the 2003 DVD, the German and French soundtracks on the same DVD and even the horribly edited Spanish DVD! The odd ones out are the SE and 137 minute bastardized US release, neither of which are reliable sources. The SE even makes the mistake of removing the sound effect of John cocking his rifle, it was probably just forgotten because they'd already wiped the original track in place of the new, edited music!

I also mentioned that the SE was badly spliced, but I just popped in the SE and that isn't really correct: The tracks are crossfaded together but I stand by everything else I said.

btw ALL the music on ALL the "Dolby Surround/Dolby Digital 5.1"versions is fake stereo.

This is simply incorrect. Yes, the track they use no less than three times in the film (final two flashbacks, end credits) appears to be in fake stereo, but the other bits that were culled together from the rest of the soundtrack (apparently just for the final two flashbacks) are in real stereo, just listen to the sean, sean's during the opening bars of the two last flashbacks before they switch to the other track and you'll hear what I mean.

I switch to the English stereo version for the 'final flashback' which is in true stereo - no doubt because it never existed before the dvd restoration so they could start from scratch.

Wrong again, it's been intact for years in the Italian cut, and even though previous versions included only half a minute of it or didn't include it at all, all these versions (apart from the German cut which contains no music at all at this point) start to play the same music (track 1 on disc 1) over the image of John smoking and then smiling, and then either cutting to a short piece of the flashback or letting the song play out over the subsequent explosion and end credits. There was never any debate about which music was supposed to be there before the John Kirk restoration.

can each of you summarize your views on which is the correct music for the final flashback scene? I know it was discussed earlier, but, rather than wading through all those extensive posts on the first 7 pages, I am wondering if the two of you -- and anyone else that has a firm opinion -- can provide your opinion on the correct music for the final flashback scene?

There's no doubt in my mind that the correct music for the final flashback is the unedited Gił la testa theme (track 1) from the soundtrack. I refer you to the arguments I presented here above in response to uncknown.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 07:08:14 AM by The clint » Logged
hanshotfirst1138
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


View Profile
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2014, 03:29:04 PM »

Hopefully, the dead horse I'm flogging doesn't smell too bad at this point, but from what I understand, the old SE DVD had a downmix. Does the Italian Blu have the proper track? How about the new U.S. Blu? I know I should read the thread, I'm just too lazy to comb through it Wink.

Logged
The clint
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 154


View Profile
« Reply #99 on: December 08, 2015, 02:01:49 AM »

The US BD does not have the original mono, nor does it have a downmix of the surround track. Technically, the Italian BD, for the most part, has the original mix (Juan's line "What About Me?" as well as his yell before the explosion come from the Italian track, though. It switches right before the flashback but contains all the correct music, thankfully). There are, however, some issues with the clarity and sync of the track. That, coupled with the washed out image quality (still better than the MGM, IMO, but not by much) and showing too much image info on all sides makes this release a bittersweet compensation for what MGM have given us.

I really wish some company like Criterion or Arrow would get their hands on these movies and release them properly, because while they're in the hands of these hacks, it seems we'll only get deeply faulty releases.

Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.038 seconds with 20 queries.