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: Final flashback  ( 8061 )
drinkanddestroy
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« #30 : March 07, 2018, 08:56:06 AM »

Btw Savant also gives Nolan the Sean forename. I just don't remember what "our board theory" about that is, but is there the slightest proof that he is really called Sean?

I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names



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« #31 : March 07, 2018, 09:47:23 AM »

The final flashback reveals an Edenic time when Mallory, Nolan, and the Girl existed in a perfect ménage à trois.

Leone's take (from Simsolo's "Conversation" book) was indeed that they shared the same girl and this wasn't just about liberalism and free love but also that the girl was symbolic of the revolution that they wanted to embrace. There's indeed nothing about falling out over the girl.

I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names

That's really far-fetched IMO

What's interesting is that only the French release seems to have contained the full flashback. Given the meticulousness with which Leone prepared the French version, one can only assume that he wanted the flashback in there. This then begs the question about why it wasn't then in the Italian release. Did Leone have to bow to external pressures beyond his control or did he indeed remove it himself and then have a change of heart when it came to the French release?

His comments in Simsolo suggest that he was upset that it had been cut in most territories. So whatever the reason for Leone removing it from the Italian version, he clearly wasn't happy about it being removed in the end and wanted it back in.

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« #32 : March 07, 2018, 10:24:48 AM »

Btw Savant also gives Nolan the Sean forename. I just don't remember what "our board theory" about that is, but is there the slightest proof that he is really called Sean?
The movie doesn't name him at all. The only warrant for calling him "Nolan" comes from the screenplay (reportedly--I have never seen it). That's all the screenplay calls him. The idea that Nolan is "Sean" is a complete fabrication.



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« #33 : March 07, 2018, 10:27:54 AM »

Posters over at blu-ray.com are reporting that this contains the audio errors of the MGM disc  :(
As far as I can make out, besides the addition of supplementary materials (e.g. an Alex Cox commentary sitting beside the Frayling one), this disc is identical to the MGM. (PQ and audio is exactly the same).



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« #34 : March 07, 2018, 10:40:19 AM »

I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names
You "heard" it in the SL Encyclopedia, where it is known as the My Three Seans theory:
Quote
Sean, Sean, Sean.” Refrain sung in the DYS theme, a suggestion of Carla Leone’s. Some feel that the name refers to Mallory’s Irish friend, called Nolan in the script. This seems less persuasive than the idea that Coburn is actually Sean. The many references in the film to Coburn as John are easily explained, as John is the Anglicized form of Sean. For example, the newspaper article that identifies Coburn's character as John Mallory may have had an editorial policy to render all Irish names as English ones. Or Sean may have even used John as an alias while on the run. Clearly, Sean uses John with Juan because he knows the peasant will be more familiar with that form of the name. The crucial fact regarding this matter is the lyric added to the music by Carla Leone: "Sean, Sean, Sean." If we did not have SL's other movies, and had only DYS to go by, we might possibly be tempted to imagine that these words refer to the dead friend. But we do have the other movies, and so know that Leone NEVER used music in this way. By the time of OUATITW, SL (in collaboration with Morricone) had developed a fairly consistent approach to film scoring, one that borrowed from operatic techniques. Specifically, he assigned leitmotifs to each of the major characters in his Once Upon a Time trilogy. This is easily seen in OUATITW, where Jill, Cheyenne, and even Morton get their own themes. Harmonica and Frank share a theme, or rather, both are identified by complementary phrases that combine to form a single theme that is only revealed in its entirety at the final gundown. In DYS the two main characters certainly get their themes: Juan gets the one that is sometimes called (by Frayling) "The March of the Beggars." The character played by Coburn gets the "Sean, Sean, Sean" theme. That is HIS theme, and it always plays when he is present on screen or just about to appear (there are two exceptions, the first at the very beginning of the film where the motif serves as foreshadowing, the second at the end after the explosion as a kind of memorial for the dearly departed). This theme is not restricted to thoughts of Ireland, or of the dead friend. The music is always with Coburn whatever he is doing or thinking. It is, in fact, an element of his character. So it is unlikely that a dead character who we only see in flashback is the focus of one of the two major musical motifs of the picture. It seems more logical that the motif should be seen as applying to Coburn, and that it is referring to him by name. That having been said, it makes sense that John/Sean's friend might also be called Sean ("They Shared a Revolution, A Woman . . . And a Name!") for the reasons stated above. There is an obvious parallel between the two revolutions and the two friendships, and that parallel is reinforced if the first friendship is between Sean and Sean and the second between John and John. And since Sean and John are variants of the same name (as are Jean, Jan, Johan et. al.) the secret title of DYS could be "My Three Seans." That would mean that the "Sean, Sean, Sean" lyric is not referring to any one person: the repetition actually names each of three characters in turn. And Morricone's score supports this: after the Mesa Verde job, which ends with a complete presentation of "The March of the Beggars" theme, that theme almost disappears from the movie (it recurs once after Juan has killed Governor Jamie). Instead, Juan begins to be associated with the more melancholy passage from the main DYS theme. It is the main DYS theme that contains (elsewhere) the "Sean, Sean, Sean" motif, so John and Juan become musically connected. One more thought on the Sean/John issue: the use of the dual names may be yet another tip of the hat to John Ford, who claimed to have been born Sean O'Feeney, and took on a new identity after traveling a considerable distance from the place of his birth (Portland, ME). The change of "Sean" to "John" is therefore a venerable American film tradition, one SL was aware of.



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« #35 : March 16, 2018, 04:23:39 AM »

Why do you think the two men are fucking?
We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:
Quote
If you actually think it and put yourself properly into the situation, for some reason the eyes telegraph the intent of what's going on without any dialogue...


...if you remember the one I did with James Coburn in A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE; we had to do a whole complicated conversation with no words, where he has to tell me with his eyes that has to kill me because of the politics. And my eyes have to say "I want you to kill me and I understand why you have to kill me. I still love you as my best mate and friend. Please kill me. You have to." So he shoots me and in my last few seconds of dying, my eyes say "I forgive you, you had to do it." And he's saying "You're dying with my love." We had to do all that stuff and I thought this would never come over. I think probably the highest compliment I ever had in my life was in the Camden Town food market one day when one of the stall boys cried out (falls into mock barrow boy accent) "Oi! Dave! You're in that film!" And I said "Oh, yes, yes, yes," and he said, "that was brilliant that sequence." And he told me what I just told you and I was flabbergasted and I said "Oh, you've read the book or something?" and he said "No, no! That was brilliant that. It was really good that you could do that without words."

http://wconnolly.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/david-warbeck-acting-without-words-on.html

"You're dying with my love." Male sexual love is necessarily about penetration. Butt-fucking may only be a gateway activity for these two. Nothing is more effective penetration than a bullet. Mallory fucks Nolan to death.

Remember, the flashbacks are not necessarily actual memories; they likely represent mental states in which past events have been idealized (the slo-mo suggests this). The girl doesn't have to be literally present: she can be the personification of Irish freedom and/or the embodiment of the Mallory-Warbeck relationship. They express their love for each other through her.



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« #36 : March 16, 2018, 06:08:07 AM »

We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:

Yes, but it's very clearly platonic.

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« #37 : March 16, 2018, 11:54:52 AM »

We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:
http://wconnolly.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/david-warbeck-acting-without-words-on.html

"You're dying with my love." Male sexual love is necessarily about penetration. Butt-fucking may only be a gateway activity for these two. Nothing is more effective penetration than a bullet. Mallory fucks Nolan to death.



 
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You are one sick fucker!!!


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