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Author Topic: What's the greatest Western by decade?  (Read 12385 times)
Juan Miranda
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2007, 05:16:22 PM »

The Last Hard Men, The Shootist, The Outlaw Josie Wales and oops, The Missouri Breaks, that's 4 for starters.

Come on then. Lets have some hard statistics, instead of innuendo and prove me wrong. As you say, there were more Westerns made "in the late '70's" than have been made "post Watergate". Going by my "flawed sources  Tongue" I count now just 4 in the late '70's, and 42 not including stuff like GHOSTS OF MARS post 1970's (and I mean Hollywood features, obviously).

« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 05:26:24 PM by Juan Miranda » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2007, 05:36:29 PM »

Come on then. Lets have some hard statistics, instead of innuendo and prove me wrong. As you say, there were more Westerns made "in the late '70's" than have been made "post Watergate". Going by my "flawed sources  Tongue" I count now just 4 in the late '70's, and 42 not including stuff like GHOSTS OF MARS post 1970's (and I mean Hollywood features, obviously).
So, you want me to type up 43 titles in a futile attempt at one-upmanship. And after I do, you reply by raising the bar again. I was born, but not yesterday. Just off the top of my head, The Villain. Were talking major Hollywood movies here, not something shot in the Phillipines with Ferdinand Marcos brother in it. Found it interesting that Wiki didn't even bother to list Heaven's Gate on it's list of "notable" westerns. If they couldn't remember that one, what else did they forget?

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Juan Miranda
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« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2007, 05:41:06 PM »

Not one-upmanship, old bean. I just want you to admit "I was wrong". I will graciously do so myself if you can prove otherwise, instead of blustering out some generalizations and having a go at me with no evidence. Whats wrong with that?

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« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2007, 05:55:53 PM »

Not one-upmanship, old bean. I just want you to admit "I was wrong". I will graciously do so myself if you can prove otherwise, instead of blustering out some generalizations and having a go at me with no evidence. Whats wrong with that?
  All, right, I admit you were wrong! Grin Cheesy Grin Seriously, just in the 80's, all I can remember is Gate, Silverado, Young Guns I & II, Quigley Down Under, and The Long Riders. I'm sure there were more, but none, other than Silverado, created much jingle in the studio piggybanks. I'm sure there were many obscure westerns made in the late 70's, which I can't recall. My point all along was that Gate did have somewhat of an impact on western productions, the same as Howard the Duck had an impact on comedy budgets. So let's just call this a draw. No hard feelings. Afro

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Juan Miranda
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« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2007, 06:09:53 PM »

No hard feelings. Afro

Indeed, I'll admit your wrong 'n all.  Wink Vamanos muchachos!

*Horses gallop off into the distance*

If anything, where HEAVEN'S GATE can be faulted is that it meant the very end of big budget Hollywood films aimed purely at an adult audience, where the director was allowed almost unlimited freedom to do what they wanted. Since then Hollywood has only spent vast sums of cash on teen or child marketed product. It spelled not the death of the Western, but the death of the adult orientated epic (such as APOCALYPSE NOW).

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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2007, 06:13:41 PM »

Western production reached it's acme in the 60's...
If you are talking about U.S. feature films, this is certainly not true. The 50's were the great decade for those, and by 1959 production numbers were already declining sharply, largely because of the many Westerns being made for TV. If you are counting TV episodes as individual Westerns, then yes, the 60s were the acme of Western production. But the question is then, Why did the Western disappear from television? Long before Heaven's Gate, Westerns were gone from the box. Given the ubiquity of TVs in US households, TV trends have been an excellent indicator of popular tastes, certainly more reliable than movie box office numbers. So, the fact that Western TV series went out of production and never returned (except in niche cable markets) simply means that, as far as mainstream audiences are concerned, the genre has run its course.

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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2007, 06:22:52 PM »

Indeed, I'll admit your wrong 'n all.  Wink Vamanos muchachos!

*Horses gallop off into the distance*

If anything, where HEAVEN'S GATE can be faulted is that it meant the very end of big budget Hollywood films aimed purely at an adult audience, where the director was allowed almost unlimited freedom to do what they wanted. Since then Hollywood has only spent vast sums of cash on teen or child marketed product. It spelled not the death of the Western, but the death of the adult orientated epic (such as APOCALYPSE NOW).
But it also meant the rise of low budget adult entertainment like Blood Simple, Blue Velvet and Reservoir Dogs. Money does not always buy quality. Personally, I liked Gate, but could not understand where the $40 million + went.  Cimino was never given that much control again.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 06:24:32 PM by Man with no dame » Logged
Juan Miranda
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2007, 06:37:55 PM »

But it also meant the rise of low budget adult entertainment like Blood Simple, Blue Velvet and Reservoir Dogs. Money does not always buy quality.

Very true that money does not always buy quality, but these sort of indy pictures, with adult themes aimed at an audience credited with sophisticaion were really born in the late '60's, early seventies, with Hollywood taking up European art house sensibilities in stuff like MEAN STREETS, THE CONVERSATION and THE LAST DETAIL. A movie like RESERVOIR DOGS is very conciously following in that tradition.

*Horses gallop off again. It's very late here in the UK.*

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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2007, 06:38:27 PM »

Given the ubiquity of TVs in US households, TV trends have been an excellent indicator of popular tastes, certainly more reliable than movie box office numbers.  
 TV trends, especially in the US are the worst barometers of public preference. Networks are the leeches of the film industry, sucking every last drop of unoriginality they can get their slimy maws on. If TV dictated trends, we all would have been wearing 3 piece leisure suits well into the 90s. They have always been 10 or more years behind the times on every thing, especially back then. Their flood of westerns in the 60's feasted on the old school films of Roy Rogers and Tex Ritter. When Leone & Peckinpah came along and revolutionized the genre, they couldn't compete and went off to feed on crime movies. Believe me, if TV ever sets a trend, it'll be a miracle.

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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2007, 06:47:19 PM »

Very true that money does not always buy quality, but these sort of indy pictures, with adult themes aimed at an audience credited with sophisticaion were really born in the late '60's, early seventies, with Hollywood taking up European art house sensibilities in stuff like MEAN STREETS, THE CONVERSATION and THE LAST DETAIL. A movie like RESERVOIR DOGS is very conciously following in that tradition.

*Horses gallop off again. It's very late here in the UK.*
True, I miss the director's who exhibited individual styles, even if they were emulating foreign director's. But, the studios are not going to give a director $300 million to direct Day For Night when they want Spiderman. That's why, even the great one's of that era, Scorsese, DePalma, etal are becoming more generic with every movie. And very few of the new crop want to break that mold.

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Jill
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« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2007, 05:05:33 AM »

30's

Stagecoach... what else?

40's

Red River

50's

The Big Country

60's

Can't decide between GBU, OUTITW and The Wild Bunch... or perhaps The Great Silence?
Too much good films Smiley

70's

Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid

80's

nothing... 80's was a bad period...

90's

Tombstone

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2007, 06:09:23 PM »

  TV trends, especially in the US are the worst barometers of public preference. Networks are the leeches of the film industry, sucking every last drop of unoriginality they can get their slimy maws on. If TV dictated trends, we all would have been wearing 3 piece leisure suits well into the 90s. They have always been 10 or more years behind the times on every thing, especially back then. Their flood of westerns in the 60's feasted on the old school films of Roy Rogers and Tex Ritter. When Leone & Peckinpah came along and revolutionized the genre, they couldn't compete and went off to feed on crime movies. Believe me, if TV ever sets a trend, it'll be a miracle.
If you will re-read the quote you are responding to, you will see that I said nothing about TV setting trends. TV in fact often follows trends, and in the case of Westerns that was certainly the case. And it stopped producing the product in response to changing tastes. By the time Peckinpah and Leone came on the scene, they had only a niche audience to cater to. Those conditions have continued to the present day. The mainstream interest in Westerns has evaporated and is never likely to return. For the great majority of people, action/adventure supplies what audiences used to get from Westerns.

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« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2007, 06:27:36 PM »

If you will re-read the quote you are responding to, you will see that I said nothing about TV setting trends. TV in fact often follows trends, and in the case of Westerns that was certainly the case. And it stopped producing the product in response to changing tastes. By the time Peckinpah and Leone came on the scene, they had only a niche audience to cater to. Those conditions have continued to the present day. The mainstream interest in Westerns has evaporated and is never likely to return. For the great majority of people, action/adventure supplies what audiences used to get from Westerns.
  Until someone makes a breakout hit, ala Pulp Fiction.

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« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2007, 08:13:13 PM »



90's

Tombstone
   One of my favorites, too, Jill. Val Kilmer really pulled out all stops for this one. Best Doc ever.

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« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2007, 08:07:59 PM »

Unforgiven blows away the made for tv like Tombstone. I like Tombstone however.

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