Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 25, 2017, 12:53:24 AM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Once Upon A Time In America (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  The Hoods
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Hoods  (Read 79174 times)
mal247
Guest
« on: June 06, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »

The book has 49 chapters and is dedicated to Grey's true & loyal mob
M., B., H. & S.

It starts in an East Side school classroom (7th grade) with:

Cockeye (a bit simple/dumb - harmonica player)
Max (tall muscular & a wise guy - reading a cowboy/western paperback)
Noodles (clever & imaginative)
Patsy (tough looking)
Dominick (podgy & small - high pitched voice)

Noodles and Max imagine what it would be like if the five of them
formed a gang like Jesse James but without horses.

Max says "We'll make a million bucks sticking up banks and then quit."
Dominick asks "a million for the five of us, Max?".
Max says "Nah a million apiece".
Patsy asks "We gonna quit when we get a million?"
Max: "Yep, we'll quit and move up to the Bronx and be big shots."

Noodles gets summoned to the Principal's office (Max offers to throw
the Principal out of the window if Noodles wants). Noodles's father has
been out of work for 3 months and Noodles wants to leave school and
start a job. The principal recognises Noodles's potential and wants him
to stay on at school.

"I think, with proper guidance, you can still develop into a good and
successful citizen. I'll have a social agency look into your case and
help your family, so that you can continue your schooling. Keep away
from bad companions ... Why not continue and try to be a bookkeeper,
possibly an accountant? Don't just go floundering through life without
a definite goal. Specialized knowledge is like a sharp knife. It will
help you cut your way through the entanglements of life to your goal.
To success. You understand what I what I mean?"

Yeh, I knew what he meant, but I played dumb. "Yeh, I'll get myself a
big knife" I said.

The dialogue and descriptions of events are a bit lengthy but reading
the book and the screenplay will clear up many of the questions that
viewers of the film may have.

Summary of chapters

01 - End Of School, Max Patsy Cockeye Dominick modern Jesse James
       Schwartz Candy Store, helping Monk, Jake Pipy Goo-Goo, Knife
       Peggy & Fanny, Momma, poverty, Max's uncle, Fat Moe, Federal
       Reserve Bank, Dolores, The Professor, Mott Street
02 - Book - Boswell's Life of Johnson
03 - Peggy & Whitey - police bribery
04 - Rolling a drunk
05 - Laundry delivery job - strike breaking
06 - Drugstore heist, death of Dominick
07 - Sent to Jewish home, Cedar Knolls for 18 months
       Maxi's uncle dies, Max takes over uncle's funeral business
08 - Taking contracts, forming coalition with Frank, 6 speakeasies
       Noodles Bookkeeper, Opium
09 - Dream of the formation of the criminal combination
10 - Turkish Baths
11 - Diamond Heist, Betty
12 - Writing a book, Sex
13 - Nutch and the diamond switch
14 - Oscar the fence, disposing of Nutch's body, John Doe,
       Federal Reserve Bank
15 - Cleaning up Peggy's whorehouse
16 - The accidental death of Andrew Moore, Himmelfarb brothers
17 - A licence to print money
18 - Noodles father previously a horse thief & smuggler, money
       printing machine switched, Broome St speakeasy to Jake & Co
19 - My disastrous date with Dolores
20 - Feeling Sorry for myself
21 - Helen the singer, picking up a prostitute, Frank & Dandy Phil
22 - Nude swimming
23 - Getting kitted out
24 - Checking out the casino (1)
25 - Checking out the casino (2), momma, brother
26 - Casino shakedown (1)
27 - Casino shakedown (2)
28 - Casino shakedown (3), 20 bullets in 3 secs
29 - Phil & Fanny
30 - Eden, Fairy Theodore, Eve
31 - Big Mike, Fitz & Jimmy at the Eden
32 - Salvy the Snake, Willie the Ape, Mr Crowning
33 - Impersonating cops, Thespus Detective Agency
34 - The seduction of Eve, rubber falsies
35 - Thespus Detective Agency (1), knockout drops
36 - Thespus Detective Agency (2)
37 - Chicago hit, Eve, taking over the Eden
38 - Our arrest, murder of Salvy, Willie & a stranger
39 - Our release, planning the next job
40 - Disposal of the body of a Supreme Court Judge
41 - Dancing with Betty, John Doe, argument with Max re payroll
       heist, split
42 - 2 weeks vacation in Miami with Eve, Max now with Betty,
       Combination goods hijacked, Herring's doublecross
43 - Max wanting to pickle Herring
44 - Max becoming a megalomaniac, throne, casing the Federal
       Reserve Bank
45 - Trying to contact Frank, withdrawing bank savings
46 - Momma in a coma in hospital, gave details of Max & Co's
       next job to prohibition agents, momma died, booze, opium
       death of Max, Patsy & Cockeye, searching for our cash
47 - Mendy Muscles & Trigger Mike take me to warehouse for
       execution, trick them to take me to Moe's, knockout drops
48 - Escape to Joeys in chinatown, opium
49 - Leave town

« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 03:44:14 AM by mal247 » Logged
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12731


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 10:54:42 PM »

thanks I'll check it out

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 04:04:24 PM »

Interesting that Max's throne is in the book, I had thought that was a uniquely Leonene touch.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
dave in milwaukee
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 01:00:41 AM »

thanks I'll check it out

You'll be glad you did. I first saw this movie in 1986, when it came out on VHS (the full-length version, not the terrible "short" version). At that time my dad, who, like me, is a huge fan of the movie, told me it was based on a book he had read when he was in the Navy in the early 1950s. We were disappointed to find out that the book had long been out of print. It was a thrill to find out in the past year that the book had been reprinted. As soon as I found out, I ordered a copy for my dad and one for myself. I had waited over 20 years to finally be able to read it, and my dad finally got to reread it after more than 50 years. It was well worth the wait.     

Logged
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 03:17:30 AM »

once: awesome job as always  Afro

don't forget the two "thrilling cowboy pictures" playing in the movie theater mentioned on page 247: Destry Rides Again and A Bloody Trail. According two imdb, there were 2 DRA's: one in 1932, and one in 1939; but there is no movie named ABT.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 03:19:44 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 03:29:21 AM »

We'll probably never know how much of 'The Hoods' is fact, how much is fiction, how much is exaggeration and how much is wishful thinking. Time, drugs and alcohol may have affected Grey's recollection of events.



Leone believed (as recounted by Frayling in STDWD) that Grey subconsciously copied stuff from gangster movies, and that the only parts that were legit were the childhood parts.

Personally, I don't think there is a chance i hell that the book is entirely true. Some of the incidents are waaaay to fanstastic to be true. Heck, even a Hollywood screenwriter wouldn't dare make 'em up (eg. when they knock off the casino, that crap about the paper machine, enforcing the strike [they really got all those guys to drink the spiked booze -- are you kidding me?], when they frighten one guy to death, when they cause one guy to be killed by selling him fake diamonds and then coincidentally are called to haul way the same guy's body, etc. etc. etc.) It makes for entertaining reading cuz of how ridiculous it all is, but I am sure that at least 75% of the stuff that happens after he gets out of the reform school is a figment of his imagination.

Unfortunately, Goldberg is a very common name; I wish we could somehow find this guy's children or grandchildren, if he had any, and see if/what they know about him.

Also, I really hope they get Frayling to do the commentary on the new, restored dvd. That would complete my already overwhelming joy that this project is finally being done.

p.s. dj, are you still skeptical about this? ;-)

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 04:35:27 PM »

Also, I really hope they get Frayling to do the commentary on the new, restored dvd. That would complete my already overwhelming joy that this project is finally being done.

p.s. dj, are you still skeptical about this? ;-)
Nobody has said anything about a DVD yet. All we know is that the restoration is intended for Cannes next year. The details of the restoration are still unstated (are they putting back in the extra footage or not?). If it makes it to Cannes in time, the question then becomes, where and when will the restoration play subsequently? No DVD will be released while the film is still in rep. Then the question is, Who will release the DVD/Blu-ray? I would expect an Italian DVD to come out, but will Warners license it for release in the States? They might not if their current release is still selling (why pay a licensing fee to launch something that competes with their own product?) Of course, someone like Criterion might pick it up, in which case, you can wait an additional 2 years before seeing the release.

So, yeah, I'm skeptical. How many of us have seen the restored OUATITW?

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 06:06:10 PM »



Based mainly on the 1910 & 1920 US censuses, a family tree of Goldberg would be similar to the following:

Father
Samuel Goldberg (1862-1916) aka Sam Srulick the Shtarker from Odessa
Immigrated to the U.S. in 1892. No wonder since Jews were being discriminated against, tortured and murdered in Russia at the time. He spoke English, was a tailor, worked in a grocery store, then suffered health problems before dying from pneumonia in Bellevue Hospital in 1916.

Mother
Sarah Goldberg (1863-1933)
Married Samuel in about 1884. Immigrated to the U.S. in 1892.  Spoke Yiddish. Had 10 children, 3 of which died at an early age. Went into hospital, suffered a coma and died.

Children
Pauline    (b.1885)
Benjamin (b.1891)
Julia         (b.1892)
David       (b.1895)
Rebecca   (b.1900)
Celia        (b.1902)
Harry       (b.1903)

Addresses
1910: 244 Delancey Street Manhattan (no longer exists)
1920: Moved to 34 Jackson Street owing to poverty



so all this is stuff you found in US Census records about a Harry Goldberg, or have you added anything in from the book? (I mean, I am sure the census records didn't say his nickname "Srulick the Shtarker"). Can you clearly mark what is from census records and what you added?

great work  Afro

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 07:05:10 AM »

-- so while Harry Goldberg sounds like a pretty common name, it sounds like this is the right guy, eh? (In the book, I believe he only mentions one brother; he doesn't mention anything about all these siblings).


-- What's the latest census that is available online? Is there any way to check through subsequent censuses to find his kids (if he had any)? Him being born in 1903 fits well with the opening of the book in the classroom, right? If he had kids, there's a good chance they would still be alive today, or his grandchildren. Perhaps we can follow the censuses to see whom he married. (of course, if he was really on the run from the law and/or the Mob, I am sure he wouldn't have filled out any census forms, and was probably using a fake name in any case. Though I don't know why he would tell Leone his real name if he was still on the run when they met.

-- Everything I have seen about Grey-- aside from your census research, that website on Jewish gangsters that you once said mentions a Harry Goldberg, and of course the unreliable The Hoods) -- comes from Frayling's chapter on OUATIA, in which Frayling writes about him, a lot of which seems to come from what Leone told Frayling about his meetings with Grey. Are there any other sources that provide info Grey?

-- On p. 379 of STDWD, Frayling discusses Grey, including about how Grey used to write about gangsters:

"In Grey's publicity photographs, he invariably wore a homburg hat with the brim turned down, and a trenchcoat with the collar turned up. He would complete the picture by clutching a long cigar, and scowling at the lens: every inch the movie gangster turned detective."

Is there any way to see these pictures today? (I figure that if they are available somewhere, once will find 'em  Afro )


« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:08:58 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 07:20:34 AM »

We'll probably never know how much of 'The Hoods' is fact, how much is fiction, how much is exaggeration and how much is wishful thinking. Time, drugs and alcohol may have affected Grey's recollection of events.

There are references to real-life events in the book which indicate the time frame. For example:

The book opens with Max reading a western paperback in a school classroom. Their teacher Safety-pin Miss Mons cautions them about a life of crime. She taught Lefty Louie & Dago Frank and read yesterday about their execution in the electric chair  (13 April 1914).

The story moves on to events during the election campaign year between Woodrow Wilson and Charles Evan Hughes (7 Nov 1916).



The story does not "move on to events during the election campaign year." IMO it's pretty clear that the scene in the classroom where the teacher mentions Lefty Louie & Dago Frank being executed, and where the boys discuss making an election fire, is all in the same opening classroom scene; even though as you note, the latter takes place 2.5 years after the former.

2 possibilities I can think of:

i) The opening scene indeed takes place in 1916, just before the election. The teacher doesn't clearly say that Louie & Frank were executed the night before. Rather, she says, "I read in last night's paper about the illustrious end of" Louie & Frank, So it doesn't necessarily mean that they had been killed recently; perhaps the newspaper was doing a profile of them several years after they had been executed.

ii) Grey was living in a fantasy world, where anything or everything could have happened at any time. (It's pretty funny how we're all trying to analyze the brain of someone who had a very wild imagination  Grin Grin Grin )

« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:26:58 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
moviesceleton
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3928


The glance that makes holes in the silver screen


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 07:58:44 AM »

Nobody has said anything about a DVD yet. All we know is that the restoration is intended for Cannes next year. The details of the restoration are still unstated (are they putting back in the extra footage or not?). If it makes it to Cannes in time, the question then becomes, where and when will the restoration play subsequently? No DVD will be released while the film is still in rep. Then the question is, Who will release the DVD/Blu-ray? I would expect an Italian DVD to come out, but will Warners license it for release in the States? They might not if their current release is still selling (why pay a licensing fee to launch something that competes with their own product?) Of course, someone like Criterion might pick it up, in which case, you can wait an additional 2 years before seeing the release.

So, yeah, I'm skeptical. How many of us have seen the restored OUATITW?
But that's out on dvd ain't it?

Logged

"Once Upon a Time in America gets ten-minute ovation at Cannes"
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 11:18:40 AM »

Even in that case (which may not be typical) it was 3 years from threatrical premiere to DVD. So, we're looking at 2015 or later for the new OUATIA R1 disc. D&D won't be able to hold out that long.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 12:43:01 PM »

Even in that case (which may not be typical) it was 3 years from threatrical premiere to DVD. So, we're looking at 2015 or later for the new OUATIA R1 disc. D&D won't be able to hold out that long.

That's definitely true.

We may have to take a spring trip to Cannes before our summer trip to Almeria  Wink

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1540



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 06:05:04 PM »

No DVD will be released while the film is still in rep. Then the question is, Who will release the DVD/Blu-ray? I would expect an Italian DVD to come out, but will Warners license it for release in the States? They might not if their current release is still selling (why pay a licensing fee to launch something that competes with their own product?)

For a multi-region man like yourself DJ surely a region B/2 Italian release would be fine? Or maybe you're just incredibly altruistic...

Logged
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8390

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2012, 08:30:54 PM »

It doesn't seem like Noodles/Harry Grey/Goldberg was any sort of major gangster. Not the kind of guy that would have his own chapter in any book about gangsters (except his own). When Leone met Goldberg, hejust thought he was some loser who at one point i his life, tried his luck with a Tommy and a Borsalino (to paraphrase a line from Frayling's book). So I don't think you'll find out much about Goldberg from searching gangster history.

To me, it seems like the best option is what ONCE did, looking through US Census records. He did find some people with that name (not surprising; "Harry Goldberg" does sound like a rather common Jewish name), don't know if it's the right guy. The one clue about his family that he mentions in the book is that his father was named Srulick: That's a Yiddish nickname, for what is probably the Hebrew name Yisrael (or can be spelled "Yisroel"); which in English would be Israel).

« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:21:00 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.063 seconds with 20 queries.