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: Continuity error/Blooper I noticed regarding one of Juan's sons(Napoleon)  ( 5726 )
The Firecracker
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« : June 16, 2007, 03:19:23 AM »

Just viewed this masterpeice again after buying the R1 release.

 Steiger's only comment, when finding his sons dead in the grotto, is "there were six. I never counted them before".

This is a serious mix up as I seem to recall him having a 7th son named Napoleon ("I don't know why I call you Napoleon when you have no imagination!") who got no fan fare from his father after being killed during the raid on the Mesa Verde bank.
Which also brings up another question... Juan didn't seem to care about Napoleon's demise in the bank, why is this?

It could be argued that he wasn't Juan's son but then why would Juan get to name him if he wasn't?
I forgot to see if Napoleon was depicted in the montage of faces flashback just before Juan kills the Governor on the train. Too tired to check it now. By morning I'm sure a few of you will take care of it for me.

« : June 16, 2007, 03:28:45 AM The Firecracker »



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« #1 : June 16, 2007, 10:59:42 AM »

I noticed this too.


I never understood why he didn't give a sh*t about his Napoleon when he was killed in the bank raid. I had always assumed it's because the adrenaline was pumping and he was so caught up in the "ecstasy of gold."


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« #2 : June 16, 2007, 11:02:52 AM »

I guess he didn't count him as the 7th just because before he had never cared about counting his sons, as he says himself at the moment. Though I also couldn't understand why he didn't care about him at all when Napoleon got killed.



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« #3 : June 16, 2007, 11:21:37 AM »

Just viewed this masterpiece again after buying the R1 release.

 Steiger's only comment, when finding his sons dead in the grotto, is "there were six. I never counted them before".

This is a serious mix up as I seem to recall him having a 7th son named Napoleon ("I don't know why I call you Napoleon when you have no imagination!") who got no fan fare from his father after being killed during the raid on the Mesa Verde bank.
Which also brings up another question... Juan didn't seem to care about Napoleon's demise in the bank, why is this?

It could be argued that he wasn't Juan's son but then why would Juan get to name him if he wasn't?
I forgot to see if Napoleon was depicted in the montage of faces flashback just before Juan kills the Governor on the train. Too tired to check it now. By morning I'm sure a few of you will take care of it for me.


It's hard to spot a 'mistake' in your favorite movie isn't it?
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« #4 : June 16, 2007, 11:45:14 AM »




 I had always assumed it's because the adrenaline was pumping and he was so caught up in the "ecstasy of gold."

struggled with this idea as well but it's hard to swallow.




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« #5 : June 16, 2007, 03:27:51 PM »

I always wondered also. Did you notice there were some rough splices during that scene.
Maybe something was left on the cutting room floor that would have cleared this up. :-\

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« #6 : June 16, 2007, 05:23:48 PM »

I always wondered also. Did you notice there were some rough splices during that scene.


Which scene? The grotto scene or Napoleon's death?




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« #7 : June 17, 2007, 07:33:18 PM »

He might mean the bank scene. Remember that soldier coming down the steps when Juan blasts open the first(or second) vault? That's the first and last time you see him.

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« #8 : June 18, 2007, 03:24:25 PM »

I don't think it's Napoleon who's killed during the bank raid.  If you watch the scene in which Juan slaps Napoleon and tells him he has no imagination, you'll notice a guy standing directly to Juan's right.  I think he's the one who's killed during the bank raid, and that's not Napoleon.  Unless I'm mistaken, Napoleon is alive and well throughout the entire bank raid.  In fact, you can spot him (and the other sons) trailing Juan as he goes from one vault to the next.  Also, after Juan says goodbye to his sons at the bridge, one of them remains standing next to Juan in an apparent attempt to stay and fight with his father, but Juan promptly slaps him (like he did in the earlier scene) and makes him go with the rest of the sons.  Again, that's Napoleon.

Nevertheless, the nameless guy who does get shot appears to be a seventh son, as he is included in Juan's memory montage of faces.  Eight faces flash through Juan's mind at that moment - his father and presumably his seven sons.  Napoleon's is the first face we see in the montage.  I think the son who's shot in the bank is fourth.

Am I wrong?

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« #9 : June 18, 2007, 03:28:17 PM »

Which scene? The grotto scene or Napoleon's death?
The Mesa Verde' bank scene.       Vaporing may have resolved this issue. I'll have to
watch the film again.

« : June 18, 2007, 03:48:07 PM geoman-1 »
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« #10 : June 18, 2007, 03:32:48 PM »

BTW, who is the guy that Juan allows to be blown up early on when they're arguing about whether they need the Firecracker or not? Juan thinks they need his expertise, the other guy says that anybody can handle the dynamite. Juan says, Have it your way, and the guy blows himself up trying to prove his point. Was that an uncle or something? Juan was pretty casual about that guy's death....



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« #11 : June 18, 2007, 03:36:21 PM »

There was a discussion about it somehwere already - with the point the man is too old to be Juan's son. (However, his point actually is, that anybody can handle the dynamite.)



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« #12 : June 18, 2007, 03:47:02 PM »

I assumed it was part of his extended family, possibly an uncle etc..
But it surely didn't faze him when he blew himself up.
Another item that sort of bothers me. Why would Juan allow
his young sons to participate in the bank heist?
He didn't allow them to stay during the bridge seige. :-\

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« #13 : June 18, 2007, 11:35:16 PM »

Another item that sort of bothers me. Why would Juan allow
his young sons to participate in the bank heist?
He didn't allow them to stay during the bridge seige. :-\

I guess it's because the bank was a robbery, something they used to do all the time, while at the bridge they were fighting against soldiers, with armoured cars and all that.



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« #14 : June 19, 2007, 01:43:55 PM »

BTW, who is the guy that Juan allows to be blown up early on when they're arguing about whether they need the Firecracker or not? Juan thinks they need his expertise, the other guy says that anybody can handle the dynamite. Juan says, Have it your way, and the guy blows himself up trying to prove his point. Was that an uncle or something? Juan was pretty casual about that guy's death....

All accounts say "extended family".

If Juan didn't cry over his son being killed at the bank why would he care about his second cousin being blown to bits?


I have reason to believe many of the older men (besides Juan's father. And even then Juan is a bit unsure if it is indeed his father) are not family, extended or otherwise.
I believe they are just bandits that joined Juan's gang.



Vapor: Your right! That guy who is killed at the bank is not Napolean. My mistake.
However this unnamed son is featured in the montage. So it must be one of his sons. Why no water works for him? Not even a mention afterwards?



« : June 19, 2007, 01:44:56 PM The Firecracker »



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