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General Sibley
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2004, 01:12:36 PM »

Relax Monsieur Orl.  Kermit's point is very well taken.  U R fokusing on the yiddish Gangstar thang so this obviously has personal rezzonance 4 U.  But if you could open your mind just slightly you might realize that Leone's entire oeuvre led up to this film.  As Galileo said, he wouldn't have been able to see so far if he hadn't stood upon the shoulders of giants, and in this case Leone couldn't have created OATIA without his prior body of work behind him.  Yes, this is great film on its own but it has even greater depths when viewed with his previous body of work in mind.  The film is the culmination of Leone's myth of America - coming through the west to the modern age.  It's like watching Kieslowski's Red without viewing the other parts of the entire Blue/White/Red trilogy.   It picks up where OUATITW left off.

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2004, 09:12:26 PM »

Guy, relax, we are all fans of Leone, some of us have approched him from different paths, your particular track is through the gangster genre and it will be interesting to get your take on various gangster films.

I too, enjoy the earlier B&W gangster films and perhaps we can make a list of recomended films.

I don't believe Kermit meant to seem snide in his remark.

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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2004, 10:04:02 PM »

Relax Monsieur Orl.  Kermit's point is very well taken.  U R fokusing on the yiddish Gangstar thang so this obviously has personal rezzonance 4 U.  But if you could open your mind just slightly you might realize that Leone's entire oeuvre led up to this film.  As Galileo said, he wouldn't have been able to see so far if he hadn't stood upon the shoulders of giants, and in this case Leone couldn't have created OATIA without his prior body of work behind him.  Yes, this is great film on its own but it has even greater depths when viewed with his previous body of work in mind.  The film is the culmination of Leone's myth of America - coming through the west to the modern age.  It's like watching Kieslowski's Red without viewing the other parts of the entire Blue/White/Red trilogy.   It picks up where OUATITW left off.

i'm sory to say general but what a load of crap. and i will not relax when some jumped up observer of ouatia thinks he has the right to tell me that to be able to comment on ouatia i need to have watched all previous leone films. i have clearly explained why this was the first leone film i was led to. also i do not need to open my mind "slightly?" as it is already open and willing to suggestion, as proved by my response to to djimbo, which is perfectly calm and respectful. you know why? because djimbo had the courtesy to speak in a polite and respectful manner, unlike kermit, who just belittled me in his response, just as you have done. you may be 55 and be over eloquent in your response, and by quoting galileo think you are intelligent. well to you i say you are a verbose stentorphone! look it up in your thesaurus if you don't know what it means. i will prove you to be ignorant. firstly i have made it clear that we( djimbo, jon and i) are referring to a point of pre/post production, not the artistic side of the film. secondly, i am by no means focusing on the "yiddish gangtsar thang", as you like to put, i believe belittleing me further. are you jealous that a jew has an opinion on the film made about jews, or perhaps that djimbo was interested in what a jew thought before consulting you, a person with so little self belief or respect that he must refer to himself as "general", and how the hell do you know that leone could not have created ouatia without his prior body of work in mind? are you his medium? do you speak to him on a regualr basis from beyond the grave? admitedly it may be the culmination of his myth of america. but if you were able to ask sergio himself what his logic was behind creating ouatia, i think  you'd find out that it was his love for the book the hoods. of course it'd have greater depth  when viewed with his previous work in mind, however do you really believe he made it in mind believing that every viewer had watched all of his previous films?! to you i say grow up and get realistic; don't let your afffection for his other productions blind your objectiveness. you like kermit must have little happening in your life if my point of view riles you so much, maybe you are friends, or lovers!! ha ha, lol!! do you know what really annoys? it'ss stuckup people such as yourself. why can't a person enjoy the film for what it is and not have to wonder the meaning behind each scene or minute of the film. film is not made by directors with a view to appease geeks/nerds, they are made to ponder upon and to review. as i have said many times, leone wanted this film to be ambigous all the way through. who are you to decide that your logic behind the film is the correct logic. enjoy the film for what it is and try not to become and obsessive, maybe this is too late. its late now in england  and i really hope i have not missed anyhing out in response to your pathetic post. as i'm sure you'll be picking up on whatever it is that i may have forgotten to mention.

and in response to cigar joe: after reading genral sibleys response do you think he is belittleing? i'm glad you too enjoy b&w gangster genre and can appreciate my fondness. however i appreciate the generals and kermits appreciation for leone westerns without being a fan myself, you do not find me being hostile, until the mesages i have recieved. you are so right that we all are fans of leone in one form or the other. and being younger it astounds me that people of a more advanced age try and make  me feel smaller trough longer vocab and  unfounded arguements. i'd like vey much to make a list of gangster flicks; and i'd be very happy to recieve a list of spaghetti westerns from the general sibley and kermit. forgive my responding hostility, its just aggravating when people make you feel less able to put ones views down because of the way one has discovered sergio leones films. seem very self absorbed and as i said previously, they may feel superior. sorry to all if i come across as being silly. i would not talk in this manner to anyone as kermit and cigar joe have, goodnight from the uk.

p.s cigar joe, i respect your opinions and hope that you continue to respect mine. i'm not ahostile person in general, i just feel very aggrieved that anyone would pick this topic to have a go at me over.......

« Last Edit: March 20, 2004, 10:12:26 PM by guy » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2004, 03:58:02 AM »

i think uve slightly misinterpreted what i wos trying 2 say
guy, i wasnt trying 2 suggest u hav any less right to comment on once upon a time in america!!! i wos just saying that it really does make u appreciate leone wen u see all his other films as well - cos theres a lovely progression (with exception of fistful of dynamite). Don't get me wrong - i wasnt dismissing your judgement. Far from it. if anything u hav a unique perspective because you can relate it to ur jewish background.  Undecided

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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2004, 04:03:06 AM »

i dont think anyone was trying 2 be snide i think they were just trying 2 relate to it from their own experiences of wctching leone. chill guy. no-ones trying 2 hav a go at u.

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General Sibley
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2004, 04:06:57 AM »

i'm sory to say general but what a load of crap. and i will not relax when some jumped up observer of ouatia thinks he has the right to tell me that to be able to comment on ouatia i need to have watched all previous leone films. i have clearly explained why this was the first leone film i was led to. also i do not need to open my mind "slightly?" as it is already open and willing to suggestion, as proved by my response to to djimbo, which is perfectly calm and respectful. you know why? because djimbo had the courtesy to speak in a polite and respectful manner, unlike kermit, who just belittled me in his response, just as you have done. you may be 55 and be over eloquent in your response, and by quoting galileo think you are intelligent. well to you i say you are a verbose stentorphone! look it up in your thesaurus if you don't know what it means. i will prove you to be ignorant. firstly i have made it clear that we( djimbo, jon and i) are referring to a point of pre/post production, not the artistic side of the film. secondly, i am by no means focusing on the "yiddish gangtsar thang", as you like to put, i believe belittleing me further. are you jealous that a jew has an opinion on the film made about jews, or perhaps that djimbo was interested in what a jew thought before consulting you, a person with so little self belief or respect that he must refer to himself as "general", and how the hell do you know that leone could not have created ouatia without his prior body of work in mind? are you his medium? do you speak to him on a regualr basis from beyond the grave? admitedly it may be the culmination of his myth of america. but if you were able to ask sergio himself what his logic was behind creating ouatia, i think  you'd fi....AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON


 Huh Misplaced our medicines have we?



« Last Edit: March 21, 2004, 04:14:15 AM by General Sibley » Logged

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cigar joe
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2004, 06:33:50 AM »

Wowahhh!  We don't need gang warfare breaking out here. The only medication we all could use is some bootleg gin.  Grin

Getting a little bit out of hand now and starting off on the wrong foot. This topic is under OUTIA not a general discusion and it ican be approached as a stand alone film.

We should all agree that we disagree and get on to some serious discussion of the gangster genre. Cool

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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2004, 07:44:07 AM »

Huh Misplaced our medicines have we?




very funny! its a shame that you could not take the time to write something appropriate -  maybe i've hit a nerve, or maybe you feel a bit silly after reading what i've written in response while defending myself, surely you must have more to say? a quick jibe hardly warrants a reply from me. but seeing as you have not saaid anything, i'll take it to be that you agree with me. which is fine because now we can get back to discussing the film........ Smiley

oh yeah thabks to djimo for claryfying the name of that clint film and the reccomendation of the other spaghetti western, keep em coming. cheers.

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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2004, 11:18:04 AM »

I don't think it matters what order you see films in, after all we are all bound to see Leone's films more than once and in different orders.The first Leone film I saw was The Good The Bad and The Ugly,followed by A Fistful Of Dynamite,followed by once Upon A Time In America.Once Upon A Time In The West was the last one i got to see.I suppose it may have been instructive to see his films in order,but I [and others of us]will probably watch them all in order at some point anyway.

Guy,chill out mate,I don't think the others were trying to be insulting!

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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2004, 01:59:15 PM »

i hope thats the end of that

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