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Author Topic: Another angle  (Read 13291 times)
Walter
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« on: September 24, 2003, 02:26:46 PM »

I'm not getting married to this point of view, and I don't know if it have been ventured before...

But couldn't it be that this whole movie is a huge metaphor for manliness and machismo?

Look at it this way:

Ramon is impotent. To hide this fact, and to gain respect from his men, he steals a woman from a married man. This man is not impotent, and the couple have a son to prove it. Ramon shows no real interest of the girl, most of the time he keeps her locked up under guards. She serves as a symbol, a symbol of Ramon as the stronger man.

When the Eastwood character Joe sets her free, he actually emasculates Ramon publicly. He stands naked and impotent, so to speak. Is this also why Ramon turns his anger to his rivals, the family unit of the Baxters?

In the end, he is left with nothing but the phallic symbol, his Winchester. But also as a symbol this is an impotent one, as Joe is wearing armor.

----

Just a fun thought I had watching the film again on dvd this afternoon. Perhaps this is just what prescription cold medication does for you....

 Wink

« Last Edit: September 24, 2003, 02:29:41 PM by Walter » Logged

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Groggy
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2003, 04:12:39 PM »

  Very interesting, and quite likely.  Then again, many people here seem to think that the majority of the Rojos (especially Esteban) are gay.  There are so many ways you can take this film . . .  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2003, 05:33:55 PM »

then again, he may have just lifted the plot devices and scenes  from YOJIMBO, all save for the armour breast plate, with no forethought towards less than manly men, or manly men for that matter.

See also Questi's DJANGO KILL

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Walter
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2003, 08:15:39 PM »

Yes, I do know that the plot is from Yojimbo - I'm new to the forum, not to movies. Still, even a cover artist can add his own subtexts to the original.

As I said, I'm not married to the theory, I just discovered that it fitted quite nicely.

And as mentioned otherplaces here, Leone was into Freud.

For that matter, I'm pretty certain that Joe hints to his own mother when he saves Marisol and says that he knew someone like her, but nobody was there to save the woman he knew.

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aaronson
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2003, 06:08:27 AM »

Another angle, very new and brilliant.I like your Freudian  interpretation. Juan impotent... and gay: he adores to be disguised and at the end of the film he is so cute with a black spanish hat...

Lest's go far: he can't pierce the Joe's iron shield as he can't pierce a virgin: he tries, tries    Tongue

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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2003, 06:16:44 AM »

Another angle, very new and brilliant.I like your Freudian  interpretation. Juan impotent... and gay: he adores to be disguised and at the end of the film he is so cute with a black spanish hat...

Lest's go far: he can't pierce the Joe's iron shield as he can't pierce a virgin: he tries, tries    Tongue

LOL.  I'm starting to think that Freud was a pervert. Grin


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Walter
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2003, 07:42:56 AM »

LOL.  I'm starting to think that Freud was a pervert. Grin



Freud would probably just ask you why you think that, what have made you a person to say such a thing?

To make it very simple, Freud believed that we have to move through different subconscious psychosexual stages as a kid. If we can't move on, we get stuck, and that will cause different problems later in life.

Besides, Freud was very busy with symbols, of course also phallic symbols. Especially in connection with dreams, but not exclusively.

He also warned against being to caught up in interpreting symbols:

"Sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar", he said.  Wink

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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2003, 01:55:48 PM »

"He also warned against being to caught up in interpreting symbols:  Sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar", he said.  



I thought that was Bill Clinton said that. Tongue

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Walter
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2003, 05:10:21 PM »

"He also warned against being to caught up in interpreting symbols:  Sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar", he said.  



I thought that was Bill Clinton said that. Tongue

Haha. No, in contrary, Clinton got really, really, REALLY  confused about symbols and stuff, way I understand what happened.

We are moving further and further away from the film, aren't we? Well, Joe had his cigar, too. Let's keep hs cigar out of this.....

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aaronson
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2003, 01:59:00 AM »

Walter, please tell us why many Leone's people are pushing often some phallic objects into the mouth of others: cigar butt, harmonica .. ?

Sometimes Harmonica is merely an Harmonica ? Wink

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Walter
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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2003, 08:01:23 AM »

Walter, please tell us why many Leone's people are pushing often some phallic objects into the mouth of others: cigar butt, harmonica .. ?

Sometimes Harmonica is merely an Harmonica ? Wink

Whoa! I have read Freud, and I am fascinated by it - but I am far from an authority on this subject!

Besides, a harmonica is hardly a phallic symbol, is it?

But you do have a little point; there is much oral activity going on.
Smoking different things (pipes, cigarettes, stogies - a personality desription through choice of smoke?), chewing tobacco, crunching apples, playing harmonica or pan flute, eating cream cake... These things are either fixed traits by persons, or it happens in significant scenes.

I must admit, I haven't tried to make something Freudian of it.    

Yet.  Wink

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Il Buono
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2003, 07:38:44 AM »

Gee, you guys make everybody look gay... Wink

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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2003, 05:30:14 PM »

Gee, you guys make everybody look gay... Wink


ROTFLMAO!  Grin

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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2003, 01:59:06 AM »

...and every kid has dremt to kill his father and make love with his mother except IL BUONO.
And CIGARETTES are not phallic symbols.

So long Friends

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Il Buono
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2003, 09:48:27 AM »

You truly have a perverted mind! Grin
Indeed, I don't buy all that Oedipus-stuff...

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