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Author Topic: Ramon's machine gun.  (Read 26372 times)
KevinJCBJK
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« on: July 03, 2007, 08:03:43 PM »

Was that a real machine gun Ramon used to gun down those Mexican soldiers? It looks like a poorly made Gatling Gun. I assume the movie takes place during the 1870's, because of the gravestone that reads 1873, and uniforms the "Americans" were using. They wore them during the Civil War.

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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2007, 09:02:40 PM »

Was that a real machine gun Ramon used to gun down those Mexican soldiers? It looks like a poorly made Gatling Gun. I assume the movie takes place during the 1870's, because of the gravestone that reads 1873, and uniforms the "Americans" were using. They wore them during the Civil War.


This has been discussed earlier though I can't recall where.

The gatling gun is fake.
It's similar to Django's gatling gun that is also fake.
constructed strictly for the film.

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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 10:44:57 PM »

yea its a prop, but a fully automatic machine gun like the prop he's using (he's not cranking it) didn't come into exixtance until the 1890's and the Mexican Khaki Uniforms are from around the turn of the century also.

The date on the grave doesn't mean there were not others into the 1890's.

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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 11:56:46 PM »

Being how detailed oriented Leone was, I'm surprised he didn't get ahold of a real machine gun for Velonte to fire.

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KevinJCBJK
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 12:00:25 AM »

I guess you can't get much on a $200,000 budget in 1964.

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 12:05:57 AM »

I guess you can't get much on a $200,000 budget in 1964.

hahaha this is true. He could of stole one though.  Wink

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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 03:09:48 PM »

Here is the link to the original discusion.

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5105.15

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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 05:05:06 PM »

Thanks, Bandolero. I don't think I would have found it on my own.

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tintinteslacoil
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2008, 01:51:43 PM »

  The gun appears to be a French Mitralleuse (s.p?) from the myriad of barrels.  But, fire only comes from the central "barrel"?  There is no crank like a Gatling or Hotchkiss. There are spade grips and an ammo  belt like a Maxim--yet the belt  doesn't move?  Two hoses can be seen at the rear when Ramon depresses the muzzle after he is done shooting.  This was a fake, running on bottled gas and oxygen, possibly using compressed air or one of the gases  to provide a simulated recoil.  Very clever--but no automatic gun existed until 1885, and they weren't used until 1895 or so in South Africa.
  Also, Ramon's use of an 1894 Winchester in .30-30 caliber--not available until 1897--and the use of Colt model P "Peacemakers", again, popular from 1873 to the present, makes me think this movie was set in turn-of-the-century to about 1909 ( pre-revolution.)
  It is interesting to note Michael J. Fox's use of a stove door as Eastwood used his piece of steel; as bullet-proof shields.  BUT--a cast-iron stove door would shatter.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 02:11:58 PM by tintinteslacoil » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2008, 05:55:19 PM »

The gun is just a prop for sure, US troops were first issued the new kahki uniforms in 1898 so that should put the film just before then.  Afro

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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2008, 09:48:13 PM »

  The gun appears to be a French Mitralleuse (s.p?) from the myriad of barrels.  But, fire only comes from the central "barrel"?  There is no crank like a Gatling or Hotchkiss. There are spade grips and an ammo  belt like a Maxim--yet the belt  doesn't move?  Two hoses can be seen at the rear when Ramon depresses the muzzle after he is done shooting.  This was a fake, running on bottled gas and oxygen, possibly using compressed air or one of the gases  to provide a simulated recoil.  Very clever--but no automatic gun existed until 1885, and they weren't used until 1895 or so in South Africa.
  Also, Ramon's use of an 1894 Winchester in .30-30 caliber--not available until 1897--and the use of Colt model P "Peacemakers", again, popular from 1873 to the present, makes me think this movie was set in turn-of-the-century to about 1909 ( pre-revolution.)
  It is interesting to note Michael J. Fox's use of a stove door as Eastwood used his piece of steel; as bullet-proof shields.  BUT--a cast-iron stove door would shatter.


Read more on this prop by scrolling down until you see its image...

http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/guns2.htm

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tintinteslacoil
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 08:37:29 AM »

Interesting?

How do you contact the poster?

DYS was set in 1913, not 1911.  Juan's gun was an '08 maxim. The 1910 Russian model had flutes on the barrel, like a Vickers.

Very good analysis, though.

The Benet-Mercier in the last clip wiould have been accurate. The US army was conned into buying these from the French around 1916.  There were notoriously unreliable--a bit of sand from the desert would jam them solid. And, they were used in the South West and Northen Mexco during Pershing's Punitive..  Troops would abandon a jammed one, and set up another--it saved time under fire.

 There were two set up at the Columbus raid. Strangely, one never jammed; the other was cleared and kept on firing. God's Grace? Afro

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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2011, 06:03:41 PM »

The gun is just a prop for sure, US troops were first issued the new kahki uniforms in 1898 so that should put the film just before then.  Afro

cj: just to clarify:  was there ever a moment of overlap that U.S. troops had the blues while the Mexicans had the khakis?

« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 06:05:12 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 06:44:02 PM »

Here is a painting by Fredrick Remington dated 1889 showing Mexican army drum corps wearing Khaki

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/220021/1/Mexican-Army-Drum-Corps.jpgl

« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 06:45:58 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 08:04:33 PM »

Here is a painting by Fredrick Remington dated 1889 showing Mexican army drum corps wearing Khaki

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/220021/1/Mexican-Army-Drum-Corps.jpgl

was the machine gun available in 1889?

I am trying to figure out if there was any year in which the machine gun was available, the Americans wore blue, and the Mexicans wore khaki?.. That would be the moment FOD takes place (if it is indeed accurate)

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