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Author Topic: Sean's Nobility or Judgement?  (Read 3217 times)
Sackett
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« on: July 05, 2007, 02:38:14 PM »

Consider how Sean judged his traitorous friend in the pub, and how he opted not to judge Villega on the train.
When Sean and Juan were escaping the city on the train, and apprehended El Presidente, Sean could have shot him out of hand.  Instead, he tosses his pistol to Juan, thus offering the chance for Juan to right some wrongs.  Do you feel Sean was just being "noble"  in this gesture, or do you feel that he did not want to "judge" people anymore as he did his Irish friend?
And yes, he could certainly judge quite a few uniforms along the way.

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Jill
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 02:41:33 PM »

Well, he is no Mexican, he thought Huerta was Juan's business...  Wink And of course, he is noble...  Kiss

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The Peacemaker
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 02:44:40 PM »

I think he wants to give Juan a chance at revenge.

You'll notice as he's pointing the gun in the governor's face, he takes a glance at Juan and then tosses him the pistol.

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geoman-1
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 10:29:57 AM »

Agreed Afro

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Noodles_SlowStir
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 02:29:17 PM »

I think Sean's act of flipping the gun to Juan is a combination of these things, and also it's quite consistent with where his mental state is at this point.  I think Sean gives the gun to Juan, and he, like the viewer, is uncertain as to what Juan will do.  I think Sean feels that Juan for his grief and suffering, should be given the choice to act in this instance.  I also agree that Sean's act of handing the gun over is consistent with his mindset of not wanting to pass any more judgements.  Sean seems to be quite world weary and almost outside of everything.  He has almost a f@#% it kind of mental state.  He'll take on Ruiz and the numerous locusts at the bridge, because he's not going to run and his feet are sore.  He kind of becomes the architect of the final battle plan.  He takes charge of the plans to create the train collision and determines the battle site area.  He seems to do this because there's really not many options available.  He also puts himself in very dangerous situations.  I'm sure that his thoughts are that something has to be done and his actions will benefit the others, but also his actions seem to show his almost disregard for himself at this point.  He's kind of removed in his weariness and disillusionment.  So I think handing the gun over to Juan, besides giving Juan the choice under the circumstances of his great loss, also is characteristic of Sean's mindset.

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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 02:47:56 PM »

I agree NSS. Towards the end of  the film Sean is resigned to the fact that fate will control
his destiny. He is tired and weary. He has no fear of death at this point.

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Sackett
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 09:40:21 AM »

I guess I would have to go along with it being a noble act or a kindness for a friend.

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poderator
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2007, 01:07:47 PM »

I guess I would have to go along with it being a noble act or a kindness for a friend.
Are we talking here about same character!!!?
Sean showed noble act of kindness!? No way, Sean was the guy who was responsible for death of all Huan's kids. He knew very well that there was no gold or money in thet bank, only rebels. And still, he decieved Huan and used him for his own selfish purposes. So only thing that Sean can feel is GUILT. Huan didn't want to be a part of the Revolution, he only tried to steal some money for the kids and him to enjoy. Of course, Huan is not inoccent at all, far from it, but Sean draged him into something very serious, and result we all know; his childerns are dead.
That is why Sean saved his life after that. And all his actions after this point (especially after that great scene where Huan identifed his dead family) is his way to redeem himself somehow. Sean cannot pass any more judgements, because he is done more evil things than everyone in this movie (killed his friend, decieved another, and blow up that bridge with all thiese soldiers).

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Noodles_SlowStir
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2007, 08:18:04 PM »

Are we talking here about same character!!!?
Sean showed noble act of kindness!? No way, Sean was the guy who was responsible for death of all Huan's kids. He knew very well that there was no gold or money in thet bank, only rebels. And still, he decieved Huan and used him for his own selfish purposes. So only thing that Sean can feel is GUILT. Huan didn't want to be a part of the Revolution, he only tried to steal some money for the kids and him to enjoy. Of course, Huan is not inoccent at all, far from it, but Sean draged him into something very serious, and result we all know; his childerns are dead.
That is why Sean saved his life after that. And all his actions after this point (especially after that great scene where Huan identifed his dead family) is his way to redeem himself somehow. Sean cannot pass any more judgements, because he is done more evil things than everyone in this movie (killed his friend, decieved another, and blow up that bridge with all thiese soldiers).

poderator, surprised you have such a harsh take on Sean.   Sean's deception of Juan was part of the macho oneupmanship game that Juan initiated.  Sean would of been all too happy to have continued by Juan on his motorcycle.   Had Juan not shot his motorcycle up or not tracked him down to the church (and blown up his employer and a military officer), the "game" would not have progressed any further.  Juan sidetracks Sean for his own selfish reasons.  In the process he hangs more murder raps on Sean and makes it more difficult for him to hide in exile.  Sean does feel guilt about pulling the trigger on his friend but there's more to that than meets the eye.  No way did Sean ever want to see Juan's family endangered.  His motivation for saving Juan was just that....to save Juan.  He tried to prevent him from leaving the grotto.  The defiance at the bridge and the grotto are the turning points in the relationship between Juan and Sean.  Their friendship grows deeper.  I think you overstate the guilt motivation in this. I don't see evil intent in any of Sean's actions.  There are definitely more characters in this film that commit greater acts of evil.      

« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 08:19:28 PM by Noodles_SlowStir » Logged

Sackett
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2007, 08:42:25 PM »

Well Noodles, after that, all I can say is that I feel like throwing "The Patriotism" in the mud right about now. 

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