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Author Topic: No Confusion about Sean or John  (Read 19281 times)
Noodles_SlowStir
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2007, 02:25:38 PM »

 Afro Peacemaker.  A truly Irish paper would not refer to Mallory as an Irish terrorist.

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The Peacemaker
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2007, 02:30:12 PM »

I think I figured it all out.


I read that John Ford's original name was Sean Feeny.


This is probably the reason why Leone has Sean change his name to John. It was a reference to his favorite director!

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Skullchrist
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2007, 02:52:37 PM »

Simple common sense; why would an Irish newspaper post a reward for an IRA member?

Most likely it was a pro-British newspaper and used the anglicized version of Sean, which is John.

I read the other post about his name and I understand and agree, lol.  The theory that they are both Sean's I also happen to agree with and think is sheer brilliance.

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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2007, 02:58:32 PM »

That could be true, yes.

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Tucumcari Bound
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2007, 03:10:07 PM »

I read the other post about his name and I understand and agree, lol.  The theory that they are both Sean's I also happen to agree with and think is sheer brilliance.

If this theory is true than it is indeed sheer brilliance!

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2007, 03:56:45 PM »

. . . his face slowly twist towards anger and hatred because she shrugged off his advances to the one she truly loves.
Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?Huh??

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Skullchrist
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2007, 04:02:08 PM »

Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?Huh??

LOL!  I told you I have a unique take on it.  That's the sense I get in his body language.

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2007, 04:42:31 PM »

I think I figured it all out.
I read that John Ford's original name was Sean Feeny.
This is probably the reason why Leone has Sean change his name to John. It was a reference to his favorite director!
YOU figured it all out?

    
Quote
Homage to Sean Ford
Reply #97 on: March 07, 2006, 07:35:29 PM    
One more thought on the Sean/John issue: the use of the dual names may be yet another tip of the hat to John Ford, who was born Sean O'Feeney, and took on a new identity after travelling a considerable distance from the place of his birth (Portland, ME). The change of "Sean" to "John" is therefore a venerable American film tradition, one SL was aware of.
   




   
Re: Thoughts on this film
Reply #98 on: March 17, 2006, 02:32:44 AM    Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
As an addendum to the above:

According to Scott Eyman (in the Taschen book on Ford):

Quote
John Ford always claimed to have been born Sean Aloysius O'Fearna--or some equally florid variant.... And for ninety-odd years he was taken at his word. But the registry of births for Cape Elizabeth, Maine clearly records the birth of one John Martin Feeney...[and this is the name] on his school records at Portland High School and on his death certificate.
(19)

Eyman suggests that the reason he fabricated the story of his name change is so he could feel more Irish. This is certainly plausible, but it may be also he was called Sean by his family when young.

In any event, far from undermining my earlier point, this fact may actually strengthen it. SL of course had no way of knowing the truth, and even if he had, he was enough of a Fordian that, when faced with a choice between fact and legend, he would opt for the latter.

With such a pedigree, the Sean-to-John change in DYS certainly seems a tribute from the Lion of Rafran to the King of Monument Valley.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2007, 04:49:23 PM »

Quote
cuts to John's face looking on and you can see his face slowly twist towards anger and hatred because she shrugged off his advances to the one she truly loves.

I agree with Skullchrist & Frayling on this, his smile sort of freezes and the music changes.

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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2007, 04:53:01 PM »


Maybe I have a darker nature, lol, but John's smile in the last flashback was extremely sinister.  And Sean was smiling right before John shot him because he didn't know that John had actually turned him in.
Very fascinating scenario Skullchrist. Afro  I never considered this possibility. I was always under the impression
that John shot Sean because Sean fingered him at the pub and/or he wanted the woman for himself. I never considered
the possibility of John ratting on Sean, hence him being in custody. Now I'll have to re-think my entire evaluation
of the movie. Embarrassed

« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 04:55:17 PM by geoman-1 » Logged
Noodles_SlowStir
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2007, 04:59:33 PM »

I don't remember Frayling taking this position.  Erickson does in the featurette.   Perhaps Frayling points out the change in the music.  But it could be argued that the musical change just confirms the existence of the menage a trois, underscores Sean's smile as indication that in his mind he's reconciled and made peace with himself before dying.  It's just too out of left field to insinuate that Sean killed Nolan out of jealousy when the opportunity presented itself.

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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2007, 05:05:30 PM »

Frayling mentions it when you watch the film with the commentary on, check it out. Cool

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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2007, 05:18:48 PM »

Wait! Whoa! Hold your horses!  I just thought of this...Why would John make a
statement regarding "passing judgement" on the train prior to the collission?
If he shot Sean out of jealousy that would not be passing judgement in my book.
Therefore I believe John did NOT turn in Sean so he could have Ms. Chandler to himself.
He shot Sean because he fingered him and John became judge, jury & executioner at that
point in time, hence passing judgement.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 05:23:54 PM by geoman-1 » Logged
Noodles_SlowStir
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2007, 05:19:54 PM »

CJ, Frayling points out the change in the musical motif.  He also points out that the final flashback reveals the menage a trois and that the relationship between the three ran deep. His inference being how painful it must of been for Sean to shoot Nolan.   He never takes the same position as Erickson in the featurette.  He never infers that Sean's motivation for shooting Nolan was jealousy or even the idea that Sean informed on Nolan.

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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2007, 06:14:25 PM »

Wait! Whoa! Hold your horses!  I just thought of this...Why would John make a
statement regarding "passing judgement" on the train prior to the collission?
If he shot Sean out of jealousy that would not be passing judgement in my book.
Therefore I believe John did NOT turn in Sean so he could have Ms. Chandler to himself.
He shot Sean because he fingered him and John became judge, jury & executioner at that
point in time, hence passing judgement.
Exactly. Afro

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