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Author Topic: Zwei glorreiche Halunken  (Read 7694 times)
Cusser
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« on: July 10, 2007, 12:39:25 PM »

OK, we know the German title is Zwei glorreiche Halunken, or Two Magnificent Scoundrels or so.  Assumedly, the Two refers to Blondie and Tuco; so I was wondering in the German version if the movie does stop action and writes anything on the screen as identifier, as it does in the English and Italian versions.  Anybody have, or seen, the German version?

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Tucumcari Bound
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 01:03:37 PM »

Interesting title there. I have yet to see that version though.

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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 03:45:11 AM »

Hi,

OK, we know the German title is Zwei glorreiche Halunken, or Two Magnificent Scoundrels or so.  Assumedly, the Two refers to Blondie and Tuco; so I was wondering in the German version if the movie does stop action and writes anything on the screen as identifier, as it does in the English and Italian versions.  Anybody have, or seen, the German version?

The identifiers in the German version are as in the original release. Tuco is "Der Brutale" which would correctly translate into "the brutal", Blondie is "Der Gute" and Sentenza is "Der Böse". The whole title issue in the German version is highly debated among fans.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 05:55:35 AM »

Hi El Suizo!

Thanks for the contribution, looking forward to more info on why its highly debated when you get a chance. Afro

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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 06:39:31 AM »

Everybody here knows it, but I say it anyway that the german title is the translation of the italian working title.

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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 10:02:06 AM »

The identifiers in the German version are as in the original release. Tuco is "Der Brutale" which would correctly translate into "the brutal", Blondie is "Der Gute" and Sentenza is "Der Böse". The whole title issue in the German version is highly debated among fans.
Thanks! More grist for the SL Encyclopedia. So, LVC was called "Sentenza" in the German version?

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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 05:02:11 PM »

Tuco is "Der Brutale" 

and Sentenza is "Der Böse".

It would probably be more accurate if Tuco and Sentenza were to trade their german titles.

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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 02:23:15 AM »

Thanks! More grist for the SL Encyclopedia. So, LVC was called "Sentenza" in the German version?

Yes, Sentenza in the german version

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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 02:24:34 AM »

It would probably be more accurate if Tuco and Sentenza were to trade their german titles.

As far as I know "il brutto" could be translated either with "the brutal" or "the ugly".

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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 11:19:50 AM »

Not correct. Brother titoli set us straight on this years ago: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=861.15 Now it would be nice if a German speaker could clue us in on the semantic range of "der Brutale."

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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 01:03:11 PM »

From a member of the Sw Data Base:

" Brutto  (1) is usually used in relation to appearances (una brutta ragazza = an ugly girl) or weather (tempo brutto = bad weather)
This use is irrelevant here

It's also used (2) in relation to a person's character, but in this sense it's usually written bruto :
un typo bruto/brutto = a brute person, a violent person (a synonym in Italian is: brutale)
It may also mean (3) 'dirty', in a literal as well as a metaphorical sense, so una brutta persona, or simply un brutto, una brutta, maybe a dirty, ugly-looking, stinking, rotten person, with a bad character, unsportive, who plays dirty, is not a good sport

While I was writing the GBU review I spoke to an Italian native speaker and he told me that 'brutto' to most people has a connotation of 'uncivilised, unfashionable, not calculating'; somebody who is brutto and somebody who is catttivo, are both bad, nasty persons, but a 'cattivo' knows exactly what he's doing, while a 'brutto' might be a rude, unthinking, hot-headed hooligan (he told me that most Italian would rather be called cattivo than brutto!)

I think Leone used brutto in a sense that is a combination of (3) + (2)


Now let's look at ugly, the wikionary says:
ugly

a) Displeasing to the eye; not aesthetically pleasing.
b) Displeasing to the ear or some other sense.
c) Offensive to one's sensibilities or morality.
He played an ugly trick on us.

Synonyms(displeasing to the eye): hideous, homely, repulsive, unattractive, uncomely, unsightly
(displeasing to the ear or some other sense): displeasing, repulsive, unattractive
(offensive to one's sensibilities or morality): corrupt, immoral, vile

I think Tuco certainly is 'ugly' in sense c), but also brutal "

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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 01:41:40 PM »

Well, titoli, presumably, qualifies as a native speaker of Italian. If I understand his post correctly, he was careful to distinguish between "brutto" and "bruto." The extra "t," apparently, makes a lot of difference.

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2009, 02:27:45 PM »

Well in 2 or 3 contemporary german books or reviews it was always translated with "the Brutal", but the above explanation by my friend Scherpschutter also votes more for "the ugly".

And he also writes about bruto/brutto.

Most irritating was a german translation of a book by Oreste de Fornari, where Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo was translated with Der Gute, der Böse, der Verschlagene. Here we have now Brutto with Bad, which is not completely wrong, but then Cattivo with Sly, which is wrong. But seemed to be a great idea for me, before I learned about it being bullshit.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 09:09:55 AM by stanton » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 01:19:51 AM »

titoli had a new post up here briefly, but for some reason took it down. I thought it added to the discussion, so I'm disappointed it was removed. How 'bout re-posting, Don T?

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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 01:30:21 AM »

My understanding of titoli's point is that "il brutto" in the title is an aesthetic category and can be only that, in humorous contradistinction to the two moral categories, "good" and "bad." (Please correct me if I am misrepresenting you, titoli).

That having been said, perhaps the only way to do justice to the literal meaning of the Italian title in English is to render it in contemporary American parlance thus: "The Good, the Butt-Ugly, the Bad."

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