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Author Topic: Another Confession  (Read 7777 times)
tokyorose
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« on: July 27, 2007, 06:25:58 PM »

Though not nearly as intriguing as rrpower's...

This was the third of the Dollars trilogy that I saw, right after The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.  I knew it was part of the trilogy and just rented it for that reason without reading anything about it.  Only Clint's picture was on the box too.  So imagine my surprise during that first scene on the train when the "reverend" lowers his bible and it's...aaaah!  It's Angel Eyes!  He's back from the dead!! Head for the hills!

Although I did figure out that he wasn't actually Angel Eyes, I wasn't sure whether he was bad or good until the scene where he and Manco play their footsies game out in the street.  But then, maybe Leone meant to keep us guessing up until then.


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dave jenkins
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2007, 07:49:43 PM »

In fact, as titoli has argued so persuasively on another thread, the Dollars pictures are not a trilogy. I believe the term we finally settled on was "trio."

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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2007, 09:42:30 PM »

I don't think it's an actual trilogy myself. It's obvious.

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tokyorose
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2007, 09:50:02 AM »

Yes, they're not a trilogy as in a three-part story such as the Lord of the Rings films or Pirates of the Caribbean films.  They are three separate stories which are loosely related, due to the possibility that they share the same main character.  I would argue that while FOD and FFDM are stand-alones, GBU is meant to be viewed after the audience has seen at least one of the other two films.  This is suggested by Blondie's appearance in the cemetary, fully garbed in the same costume as the other two films, including the poncho.  This is the point where the audience is meant to say, "Hey!  Wait a minute!  We've seen that guy before!" and recognize him at least as the mysterious gunslinger, if not as Joe or Manco.

That point aside, would you say that Mortimer appears to be a sinister character up until the conclusion of the hat-shooting scene?

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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2007, 10:10:26 AM »

Actually no, tokyorose I saw this film first so I didn't have any idea or preconceived notion.

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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2007, 10:27:25 AM »

Yes, they're not a trilogy as in a three-part story such as the Lord of the Rings films or Pirates of the Caribbean films.  They are three separate stories which are loosely related, due to the possibility that they share the same main character.  I would argue that while FOD and FFDM are stand-alones, GBU is meant to be viewed after the audience has seen at least one of the other two films.  This is suggested by Blondie's appearance in the cemetary, fully garbed in the same costume as the other two films, including the poncho.  This is the point where the audience is meant to say, "Hey!  Wait a minute!  We've seen that guy before!" and recognize him at least as the mysterious gunslinger, if not as Joe or Manco.
It's a touch the Master intended us to appreciate, certainly, but it merely alludes to the other films, it does not, IMHO, serve to announce Blondies "true identity," as it were. Otherwise we're back to the trilogy idea. If the character is the same in all 3 films, the set, by definition, is a trilogy. But I don't think that is the case.

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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2007, 06:38:27 AM »

It's a touch the Master intended us to appreciate, certainly, but it merely alludes to the other films, it does not, IMHO, serve to announce Blondies "true identity," as it were. Otherwise we're back to the trilogy idea. If the character is the same in all 3 films, the set, by definition, is a trilogy. But I don't think that is the case.

As i quoted somewhere else, Sergio Leone talked about it. And of course, it is not a "traditional" trilogy, but it IS a trilogy. This is the same character, no doubt about it. It doesn't mean that it is in the same "life"... the Man With No Name is a movie character, these films are not realistic. Don't forget Manco is able to  shoot apples in a very far tree without aiming.

So, Sergio Leone refered to it as a trilogy sharing the same character: "and at the end of GBU, he takes the costume he had in the previous movies, and rides to the south, to the adventures of a Fistful Of Dollars. That was my final trick for the audience. I like it: finishing the trilogy with a loop." (not exact quote).

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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 08:20:44 AM »

Ex post facto rationalizations are less impressive than stated intentions before the fact. This is the guy who also gave credence to the OUATIA dream theory--but only after the film was already playing. There are times to trust what SL said, and times when it is best to be wary. This was always the case with Hitchcock as well. In interviews, you could get straight answers to technical questions, but ask about the content of his films, and Hitchcock would start piling on the evasions and outright falsehoods.

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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 08:35:06 AM »

SL knew a lot of things about the american old west at the point where he directed GBU. He knew about guns. He knew that, according to History, GBU takes palce first, then FOD, and then FAFDM (their are even references to the civil war s a past event in FAFDM). He also knew how powerful (i mean as a character) the man with no name character was. He knew people didn't know all that. He knew people were expecting Clint to have his poncho... and he plays with that. I don't care about the "loop" thing, that about 1000 people in the whole world were able to understand at this time (you have to know the three movie by heart and know a lot about weapons and history). I'm just pintpointing that it is OBVIOUS that the man with no name is the same character in every movie, eventhough his name changes.

The "movie character" thing is my theory, and i'm sure SL didn't even thought about it. But he did things this way. What I mean is : this is the same character. He has the same face, the same expressions, his reactions are always the same. He is like famous characters in fairy tales : you don't care what happen between each story, he exists just for one story, but you use the same character.
baba Yaga in the russian fairy tales. Pai Mei in chinese exploitation movies. The Man With No Name in Leone's movies. Leone was not conscious of that, this is what he did... but he knew that THIS IS the same character.

I just cannot understand how it can be understood in another way... Look at Joe, look at Manco, look at Blondie, and try to assert this is not the same character. Come on...

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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 10:12:23 AM »


The "movie character" thing is my theory, and i'm sure SL didn't even thought about it. But he did things this way. What I mean is : this is the same character. He has the same face, the same expressions, his reactions are always the same. He is like famous characters in fairy tales : you don't care what happen between each story, he exists just for one story, but you use the same character.
baba Yaga in the russian fairy tales. Pai Mei in chinese exploitation movies. The Man With No Name in Leone's movies. Leone was not conscious of that, this is what he did... but he knew that THIS IS the same character.

I just cannot understand how it can be understood in another way... Look at Joe, look at Manco, look at Blondie, and try to assert this is not the same character. Come on...
There are differences, though. Joe responds to the "holy family" and acts to save them. Monco seems entirely motivated by money. Blondie is willing to surrender a very tidy sum for what amounts to a practical joke. These characters are close, it seems to me, but not necessarily identical.

I like to fall back on my "parallel worlds" theory. The 3 characters exist in 3 separate universes and are roughly the same person, but they've had different life experiences that make them distinct from each other. Then there is the world of OUATITW, where Joe/Monco/Blondie never existed......

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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 04:01:56 PM »

Chronologically by weapons & other facts used it should go:

GBU - Civil War & Colt Navy's 1(862-63)

FAFDM - Newspaper dates, Colt Peacemakers (post 1873)

AFOD - Ramon uses a fully automatic machine gun (mid 1890's) (its not a Gatling Gun he's not cranking it) and the Mexican Soldiers are wearing Khaki uniforms, turn of the century

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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 04:34:34 PM »



AFOD - Ramon uses a fully automatic machine gun (mid 1890's)


But it's a fake? Huh

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cigar joe
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2007, 08:57:47 PM »

yes, a prop mans creation sort of a cross between a Maxim and a Gatling, but the mex uniforms also point to the same time period.

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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 03:04:54 AM »

Chronologically by weapons & other facts used it should go:

GBU - Civil War & Colt Navy's 1(862-63)

FAFDM - Newspaper dates, Colt Peacemakers (post 1873)

AFOD - Ramon uses a fully automatic machine gun (mid 1890's) (its not a Gatling Gun he's not cranking it) and the Mexican Soldiers are wearing Khaki uniforms, turn of the century

What about Mortimer's Buntline Special (1889 i think)?

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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 03:05:32 AM »

I like to fall back on my "parallel worlds" theory. The 3 characters exist in 3 separate universes and are roughly the same person, but they've had different life experiences that make them distinct from each other. Then there is the world of OUATITW, where Joe/Monco/Blondie never existed......

so we completly agree...

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