Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 15, 2018, 06:12:34 AM
:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Other/Miscellaneous
| |-+  Off-Topic Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Bergman dead at 89
0 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
: 1 [2] 3
: Bergman dead at 89  ( 10326 )
moviesceleton
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3936


The glance that makes holes in the silver screen


« #15 : August 03, 2007, 04:25:16 AM »

I was without the net or even newspaper this week 'till now, and after a quick shower I checked what's on TV tonight and noticed a documentary on Bergman and planned to tape it. Then I read: "...on account of his departure"  :-\... I haven't seen any of his movies but still it's sad. I hope they are now gonna present some of his.


"Once Upon a Time in America gets ten-minute ovation at Cannes"
marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #16 : August 03, 2007, 04:32:27 AM »

The most terrible thing is, they often show such documentaries only after the people are dead... :'(



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14082

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #17 : August 04, 2007, 05:35:09 PM »

Quote
Scenes From an Overrated Career

By JONATHAN ROSENBAUM
Published: August 4, 2007


THE first Ingmar Bergman movie I ever saw was “The Magician,” at the Fifth Avenue Cinema in the spring of 1960, when I was 17. The only way I could watch the film this week after the Swedish director’s death was on a remaindered DVD I bought in Paris. Like many of his films, “The Magician” hasn’t been widely available here for ages.

Nearly all the obituaries I’ve read take for granted Mr. Bergman’s stature as one of the uncontestable major figures in cinema — for his serious themes (the loss of religious faith and the waning of relationships), for his expert direction of actors (many of whom, like Max von Sydow and Liv Ullmann, he introduced and made famous) and for the hard severity of his images. If you Google “Ingmar Bergman” and “great,” you get almost six million hits.

Sometimes, though, the best indication of an artist’s continuing vitality is simply what of his work remains visible and is still talked about. The hard fact is, Mr. Bergman isn’t being taught in film courses or debated by film buffs with the same intensity as Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles and Jean-Luc Godard. His works are seen less often in retrospectives and on DVD than those of Carl Dreyer and Robert Bresson — two master filmmakers widely scorned as boring and pretentious during Mr. Bergman’s heyday.

What Mr. Bergman had that those two masters lacked was the power to entertain — which often meant a reluctance to challenge conventional film-going habits, as Dreyer did when constructing his peculiar form of movie space and Bresson did when constructing his peculiar form of movie acting.

The same qualities that made Mr. Bergman’s films go down more easily than theirs — his fluid storytelling and deftness in handling actresses, comparable to the skills of a Hollywood professional like George Cukor — also make them feel less important today, because they have fewer secrets to impart. What we see is what we get, and what we hear, however well written or dramatic, are things we’re likely to have heard elsewhere.

So where did the outsized reputation of Mr. Bergman come from? At least part of his initial appeal in the ’50s seems tied to the sexiness of his actresses and the more relaxed attitudes about nudity in Sweden; discovering the handsome look of a Bergman film also clearly meant encountering the beauty of Maj-Britt Nilsson and Harriet Andersson. And for younger cinephiles like myself, watching Mr. Bergman’s films at the same time I was first encountering directors like Mr. Godard and Alain Resnais, it was tempting to regard him as a kindred spirit, the vanguard of a Swedish New Wave.

It was a seductive error, but an error nevertheless. The stylistic departures I saw in Mr. Bergman’s ’50s and ’60s features — the silent-movie pastiche in “Sawdust and Tinsel,” the punitive use of magic against a doctor-villain in “The Magician,” the aggressive avant-garde prologue of “Persona” — were actually more functions of his skill and experience as a theater director than a desire or capacity to change the language of cinema in order to say something new. If the French New Wave addressed a new contemporary world, Mr. Bergman’s talent was mainly devoted to preserving and perpetuating an old one.

Curiously, theater is what claimed most of Mr. Bergman’s genius, but cinema is what claimed most of his reputation. He was drawn again and again to the 19th-century theater of Chekhov, Strindberg and Ibsen — these were his real roots — and based on the testimony of friends who saw some of his stage productions when they traveled to Brooklyn, there’s good reason to believe a comprehensive account of his prodigious theater work, his métier, is long overdue.

We remember the late Michelangelo Antonioni for his mysteriously vacant pockets of time, Andrei Tarkovsky for his elaborately choreographed long takes and Orson Welles for his canted angles and staccato editing. And we remember all three for their deep, multifaceted investments in the modern world — the same world Mr. Bergman seemed perpetually in retreat from.

Mr. Bergman simply used film (and later, video) to translate shadow-plays staged in his mind — relatively private psychodramas about his own relationships with his cast members, and metaphysical speculations that at best condensed the thoughts of a few philosophers rather than expanded them. Riddled with wounds inflicted by Mr. Bergman’s strict Lutheran upbringing and diverse spiritual doubts, these films are at times too self-absorbed to say much about the larger world, limiting the relevance that his champions often claim for them.

Above all, his movies aren’t so much filmic expressions as expressions on film. One of the most striking aspects of the use of digital video in “Saraband,” his last feature, is his seeming contempt for the medium apart from its usefulness as a simple recording device.

Yet what Mr. Bergman was interested in recording was pretty much the same tormented and tortured neurotic resentments, the same spite and even the same cruelty that can be traced back to his work of a half-century ago. Like John Ford, one of Mr. Bergman’s favorite directors — whose taste for silhouettes moving across horizons he shared — he would endlessly reshuffle his reliable troupe of players, his favorite sores and obsessions, like shards of glass in a kaleidoscope.

It’s strange to realize that his bitter and pinched emotions, once they were combined with excellent cinematography and superb acting, could become chic — and revered as emblems of higher purposes in cinema. But these emotions remain ugly ones, no matter how stylishly they might be served up.

Even stranger to me was the way he always resonated with New York audiences. The antiseptic, upscale look of Mr. Bergman’s interiors and his mainly blond, blue-eyed cast members became a brand to be adopted and emulated. (His artfully presented traumas became so respectable they could help to sell espresso in the lobby of the Fifth Avenue Cinema.) Mr. Bergman, famously, not only helped fuel the art-house aspirations of Woody Allen but Mr. Allen’s class aspirations as well — the dual yearnings ultimately becoming so intertwined that they seemed identical.

Despite all the compulsive superlatives offered up this week, Mr. Bergman’s star has faded, maybe because we’ve all grown up a little, as filmgoers and as socially aware adults. It doesn’t diminish his masterful use of extended close-ups or his distinctively theatrical, seemingly homemade cinema to suggest that movies can offer something more complex and challenging. And while Mr. Bergman’s films may have lost much of their pertinence, they will always remain landmarks in the history of taste.
Jonathan Rosenbaum, a film critic for The Chicago Reader, is the author, most recently, of “Discovering Orson Welles.”



That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #18 : August 05, 2007, 03:14:49 AM »

Quote
It’s strange to realize that his bitter and pinched emotions, once they were combined with excellent cinematography and superb acting, could become chic — and revered as emblems of higher purposes in cinema. But these emotions remain ugly ones, no matter how stylishly they might be served up.

I must say, I really agree with this, though I would say it in much simpler way...



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8066



« #19 : August 05, 2007, 05:47:00 AM »

First time I hear "ugly" emotions to exist.


marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #20 : August 05, 2007, 06:14:07 AM »

First time I hear "ugly" emotions to exist.

It's hard to explain, but it's what I felt after seeing some of his films and I probably share it with the author of that article... I think, it's "ugly" in that meaning mothers would say to their children "That's an ugly thing to do". Of course, it's more difficult with emotions, but that feeling stays anyway.



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
Sonny
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 806



« #21 : August 05, 2007, 04:29:09 PM »

The most terrible thing is, they often show such documentaries only after the people are dead... :'(


It's a kind of trend in the artstic world, the artist's death seems to be what markets their fame...  it makes no sense, i agree, but it has been that way for centuries.




"I have vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals.."
marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #22 : August 06, 2007, 03:13:06 AM »

It's a kind of trend in the artstic world, the artist's death seems to be what markets their fame...  it makes no sense, i agree, but it has been that way for centuries.

I know. But it doesn't make me satisfied with it... >:(



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
Tuco the ugly
Guest


« #23 : August 13, 2007, 11:28:54 AM »

R.I.P. Bergman

KevinJCBJK
Guest


« #24 : August 13, 2007, 01:49:03 PM »

I haven't seen The Seventh Seal yet...

marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #25 : August 13, 2007, 01:53:48 PM »

I haven't seen The Seventh Seal yet...

So go see it. :)



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
KevinJCBJK
Guest


« #26 : August 13, 2007, 01:55:08 PM »

So go see it. :)

I will. >:D

marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #27 : August 13, 2007, 01:58:30 PM »

No hurry. Sometimes it takes years before you see a film you want to see... it took me about six years to see GBU and even more with OUATITW, so there's really no hurry. ;D



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
KevinJCBJK
Guest


« #28 : August 13, 2007, 02:00:47 PM »

No hurry. Sometimes it takes years before you see a film you want to see... it took me about six years to see GBU and even more with OUATITW, so there's really no hurry. ;D

It took me 19 years to see GBU, and another 6 months to see OUATITW, it's much easier for me to say Once Upon a Time in the West.

marmota-b
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2934


It's perfect timing, large one...


« #29 : August 13, 2007, 02:06:19 PM »

It took me 19 years to see GBU

That's a lot. I'm a lucky person. :) (Though I think it was more than six years... I've wanted to see it ever since I've heard that title music and that must have been loooong ago.)

it's much easier for me to say Once Upon a Time in the West.

Excuse me? ??? What did you mean by that?



There are two kinds of films in this world:those which stay,even when their genre is forgotten,and those which don't.
: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
0.057130