Secretary Bailey's identity not known to Fat Moe, Carol, Noodles etc?In my opinion this is the one major flaw in the movie. It is reported that De Niro who at the time was very thorough had some heated discussions with Leone on some aspects of the film. We will probably never know exactly how Leone felt - all we are certain of is that in the screenplay Max was a "Senator". A Senator whom no-one had seen? This was thought to be implausible and his position was scaled down to a Secretary - it's still not really scaled down enough.
Do Fat Moe and the rest know that Noodles raped Deborah?There is certainly an atmosphere when Noodles joins them for coffee. Normally Fat Moe would be all over Noodles but Noodles has to ask Fat Moe for coffee, which Noodles takes an age to stir. Noodles eyes Fat Moe cautiously and his look almost says "I hope he doesn't stab me with those scissors". It is reported that this part of the scene was invented by De Niro as an homage to Leone.Again it's down to the viewer to interpret - the gang were of course aware that Noodles had a date with Deborah. They were probably aware that the date went wrong - hopefully they were spared all the details. In the book the rape is not fully completed. As Noodles is ripping Deborah's clothes off, the taxi stops suddenly throwing them both to the floor of the vehicle. The taxi driver says “For Christ sake, let up. You want to kill the girl? You want to get us arrested?”
SmileSome people read a lot into this scene. I don't. Noodles has seen the results of his betrayal, the death of his friends and goes to the opium den for solace. He lies down, inhales the opium and the smile comes almost immediately. There is insufficient time for him to think deeply about the past or dream of future events. It is a stupid smile induced by the drug. Simply a suitable iconic image or a reinforcement of the "this will make you think" idea of the garbage truck - some say it echoes a similar scene with Jill in Once Upon A Time In The West.
Which leads us to two more questions:1) How can it be, that he's not in touch with his sister? And how come, he's doing worse than ever, while his sister is rich?2) Why is Noodles treating Fat Moe like shit, when they meet after decades? Shouldn't he be happy to see an old friend after all these years? (I know he suspects that FM took the money, but let's be honest, he took something more important from FM's sister.)
I partly agree with you Tuco. All I can really add is:1) For a brother and sister they never seemed particularly close - I think Deborah saw herself a different class to her brother. Fat Moe seemed to have limited ambitions and enthusiasm - he was never part of the gang - he probably was reasonably happy following in his father's footsteps and eking out a living. Perhaps he wasn't a very good businessman - perhaps the ending of prohibition ruined trade. 2) Noodles & Fat Moe have almost a master servant relationship. In Noodles mind he isn't treating Fat Moe badly, he doesn't know any other way to interact with Fat Moe.
It's a pity De Niro wasn't as candid in interviews as Woods - I'd love to know how he internalized for the character. At the time his preparation for roles was reported to be very thorough - the only thing we tend to hear is that he tried to get a meeting with Meyer Lansky but was unsuccessful.
This is probably the biggest flaw in a Leone movie ever.To suppose, that in an era of televisions, regular newspapers and radio programs, no-one (Fat Moe, Noodles,...) would somewhere recognize Max, is stupid. It just cannot be. Noodles wasn't living in Nicaragua, he was in Buffalo.
1° we only know for sure that NOODLES doesn't know. Fat may/must know about it. May be he had no more relations with his sister, but sby must have told him, at least about her and Bayley, and since then, since he cares about her, he must have checked. That doesn't mean he has to tell Noodles about it.
2° Noodles has, when he is not in New York, no life. He doesn't exists. He is nobody and nowhere. He only jumps from a period to another. This is the most obvious symbol of the movie (which is, by other aspects, very complex, but not here), so i don't understand why people have problems with this point.
3° (this point is for those who cannot accept the 2°) Even if Noodles knew about it... Why would his reaction be different than the one he has when he is in front of Max at the end? He only refuses the truth. On the other hand, he is attracted by it, this is why he goes to the party. But when the truth is in front of him, he refuses it. Nothing in the movie says it is the first time he has to refuse the truth about Max.
1 It is possible, but highly unbelievable. Why wouldn't he tell Noodles? After all, remember that he submited quietly that beating of a lifetime for him, this suggests Noodles means something to him, he means very much to him actually.2 You are forgetting something; they found him easily when they sent him that letter. That means he a had a permanent address, he wasn't traveling around, he was in Buffalo all the time.3 He maybe refusing it before he met Bailey/Max, when they met at the party he just didn't wanted to give Max the pleasure. That was his revenge.
I don't agree at all
1) he wouldn't tell Noodles for the same reason than Deborah : they don't want him to be hurt more than he already is.
2) He, technicaly, has a permanent adress, but we don't care : he doesn't exists. He doesn't have a life. His life is in NY, and a bit in prison. The rest of it is not realistic because they don't want it to be realistic. They gave him an adress because he is not a ghost, but nothing happens to the character, absolutly nothing. It is just like you see in the movie : he lives njew york in 1931 (if i remember right), and then he comes back 35 years later. Just as you see in the movie. Between these two dates, their is nothing else than remorse. Nothing else.
3) That's what Max says, and Noodles answers that it is no revange. I believe him. He rejects the truth and this world.
...any other opinion?