Locations

[Tuco the ugly]

Another interesting location insight.  Thank you A1.  That mausoleum was impressive.  The cemetary groundskeeper was pretty good in that scene.  Much better than the rental car agent in the train station when Noodles returns.  He was terrible.

Leone? 

[Noodles_SlowStir]

Leone? 

hehehe...oh no.  Not going to open that one again.  The old guy with the beard was the ticket seller that sells Noodles the ticket to Buffalo when he's leaving.  I was referring to the car rental agent when he returns in the 60's.  I thought the actor was really unnatural the way he looks at Noodles while he's filling out his paperwork.

This guy......red tie and red pen  (Red Alert! Sergio sell him a ticket out of the film....)

The door was not a Leone invention

A1 you inspired me.  I was curious about the artwork on the mausoleum door.  You've been so thorough and detailed in your analysis.....if you don't already have this information, you'll have it soon.    The door sculpture is on Woodlawn's list of notable artwork.

http://www.thewoodlawncemetery.org/sculpture.html

The sculpture was created by Robert Ingersoll Aitken.  He's a prominent and important artist.  In addition to the Gates mausoleum sculpture, he's known for his sculpture work on the West Pediment of the U.S. Supreme Court building....and many more.



http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/westpediment.pdf

Biographical info on Aitken on wiki and another site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ingersoll_Aitken
http://nmaa-ryder.si.edu/search/artist_bio.cfm?StartRow=1&ID=40

[dave jenkins]

Good on ya, N_SS.  Now, can somebody tell me what the figure on the door is supposed to represent?

[geoman-1]

Good on ya, N_SS.  Now, can somebody tell me what the figure on the door is supposed to represent?

I believe the figure represents the sorrow and grief for the deceased.

[dave jenkins]

Yes, it may be as simple as that. But I thought there may be more to it; the West Pediment of the Supreme Court building, for example, has nine figures who not only represent the literal 9-member court, but have an allegorical function as well (one represents Liberty, another Order, and so on).

[Tuco the ugly]

hehehe...oh no.  Not going to open that one again.  The old guy with the beard was the ticket seller that sells Noodles the ticket to Buffalo when he's leaving.  I was referring to the car rental agent when he returns in the 60's.  I thought the actor was really unnatural the way he looks at Noodles while he's filling out his paperwork.

This guy......red tie and red pen  (Red Alert! Sergio sell him a ticket out of the film....)

I know, I know. I just couldn't resist yesterday, the glass was full all evening. 

Yes, the guy is a bit unnatural, but I always thought it's because of Noodles. He didn't even once look at the guy's face, and what left this already snobbish man floating in air for a few seconds.

[Noodles_SlowStir]

I know, I know. I just couldn't resist yesterday, the glass was full all evening. 

Yes, the guy is a bit unnatural, but I always thought it's because of Noodles. He didn't even once look at the guy's face, and what left this already snobbish man floating in air for a few seconds.

 

You're right.  Noodles doesn't give him the time of day and hardly acknowledges him at all.  I agree he would probably keep an eye on  him, maybe give him a thorough up and down to assess him on some level.  Yet, for me, he seems to be playing to the camera....."just a little bit" 

Now, can somebody tell me what the figure on the door is supposed to represent?

I searched some but wasn't able to come up with anything definitive.  I found another link on Woodlawn Cemetery that talks about the cemetery and how much of the sculpture and design is by some of the most notable and respected sculptors, artists, carvers and architects of America and worldwide.  A lot of the artwork, sculptures, mausoleums are very carefully designed and planned to fit in with what would surround it in specific areas of the cemetery.   Many of the designs of the mausoleums with significant contributions from world renowned sculptors were based upon Greek architecture.  This link provides quite a bit of information but nothing specific about Gates' mausoleum.

http://www.lehman.edu/vpadvance/artgallery/publicart/woodlawn.htm

If you look to the left there are other links for walking tours and information on neighborhoods in the Bronx area that may be of interest. A1, maybe there's something there that would be of interest to you in your trip planning.  Not sure.   Thank you for the post and information on Audrey Munson.  Very interesting.

The above link gives a run down of all the famous people that are buried in Woodlawn.  That in itself is fascinating.  Of interest to all would probably be "Bat" Masterson.  Quite a few names grabbed me that I would love to make the trip sometime.....Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, Irving Berlin, Herman Melville....list just goes on.  Check it out.  I saw some pics of the markers somewhere too which was quite interesting.

I'll dig a little more to see if I can find any info on Aitken and the significance of the Gates' sculpture design.  Maybe the design is part of a series of sculptures of mausoleums that are in proximity to each other as the page seems to indicate how everything is carefully laid out. 

The other thoughts I had were....why would Sergio choose this specific mausoleum for the film?  Without doubt the design of the mausoleum itself is so impressive that could of been the sole reason.  Could of just been its location within the cemetery to set up the shot.  Maybe there were a combination of reasons that he would of selected this one mausoleum.  Obviously there were others that would of been just as grand.  We know that he had a great interest in art.  Maybe he was familiar with the work of Robert I. Aitken.  Aitken, like a few sculptors, and Audrey Munson, had extensive connections with the Italian carvers and sculptors, the Piccirilli Brothers.  They were known throughout the world and are famous for many statues (perhaps most for the Lincoln statue in the Lincoln Memorial).  They also did the carving work on the pediment of the NYSE and worked on the Washington Arch in Greenwich Village.  Sergio may of had great admiration for them and was aware of the connections.

http://www2.riverdale.edu/~bcarroll/

Maybe he knew that Audrey Munson was an early silent film star.  It seems she's known as one of the first actresses to appear nude in film.  The sculpture is quite sensual.  Sergio had an appreciation for many of the films from the silent era.  Maybe this is an association with the Deborah character as an actress.

Another thing I found was that Audrey Munson is known for modelling for many works of art but also in particular for another New York sculpture in Straus Park memorializing the Strauses that perished on the Titanic.  That sculpture is called "Memories".  Her association to a sculpture entitled "Memories" would seem very fitting for OUATIA.


Memories   Sculpture by Augustus Lukeman. 
   

[dave jenkins]

The other thoughts I had were....why would Sergio choose this specific mausoleum for the film?  Without doubt the design of the mausoleum itself is so impressive that could of been the sole reason.  Could of just been its location within the cemetery to set up the shot.  Maybe there were a combination of reasons that he would of selected this one mausoleum.

Undoubtedly. The door itself was probably the principal draw (note how much De Niro fusses with it). There is a door motif that runs throughout the film: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=6937.0

[Noodles_SlowStir]

Undoubtedly. The door itself was probably the principal draw (note how much De Niro fusses with it). There is a door motif that runs throughout the film: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=6937.0

Yes.  I really like what he does with doors thoughout the film.  He’s quite masterful in the way he uses doors as metaphor for a lot of the themes in the film....choices and decisions, consequences, passage of time....also windows, mirrors, keys and to some extent the bridges as well.  His framing is always impeccable.  He sometimes uses them with framing as well.   

You’re right.  Noodles sure does fuss with that mausoleum door.  Seems he’s drawn to Audrey Munson’s image.  He seems delighted there’s no knob there.  Could it be when he initially opens the door it’s another shot that establishes Noodles in his own words as a  “tush” man?    It would be interesting to have a featurette that speculates on Noodles’ thoughts and self talk as he opens and reopens and closes that door.   

That mausoleum was impressive and a perfect choice.  Yet in the cemetery there were many mausoleums that had beautiful design, architecture and ornate doors.  These three have similar designs of a woman figure on their doors.





Could be that the Gates’ mausoleum is located near these and the woman figure is a continuity thing.  Still not sure what she would represent.  A Venus like figure?.....

This would of been an interesting choice for OUATIA with the hour glass ornamentation above the door.  The architecture of the structure isn’t as impressive as Gates’.




These were other mausoleum pictures I was able to find.  The doors are quite nice.  The structures are great, and I would imagine the inside is quite impressive as well.  They have various holes, slats and cracks in the door design for light to filter through.  I guess from an art standpoint the Aitken sculpture is so much more interesting.






A lot of these mausoleums had really intricate work such as stain glass inside...like the Gates mausoleum.  This is an interesting link from the Times I found that provides a commentary and slide show.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20031025_WOODLAWN/index.html

I also read somewhere that Columbia University earlier in the year received from Woodlawn many of the papers, blue prints and historical documents that relate to the various sculptures and mausoleums in the cemetery.  The university is in the process of cataloging everything and I’m sure at some point a lot of it will be digitized.

I agree that the Aitken door was probably the principal reason to go with that particular mausoleum.  I think that the location within the cemetery and possibly the upkeep of the Gates mausoleum may of been factors.   The interior may of been another reason.  It does seem like he actually filmed inside.  Also he had to select a mausoleum that did not have a lot of religious carvings or symbols on the exterior (and interior) that would of been representative of a faith that wasn’t Jewish.  If so, it would have to have the possibility of being concealed in someway.   

Looking at all of them, I can’t imagine a better choice.  With his eye for attention of detail and appreciation of art, how could it not of been.  Knowing some of these details and historical facts will only enhance my appreciation when I watch the film and view that scene.

[dave jenkins]

I agree that the Aitken door was probably the principal reason to go with that particular mausoleum.  I think that the location within the cemetery and possibly the upkeep of the Gates mausoleum may of been factors.   The interior may of been another reason.  It does seem like he actually filmed inside.  Also he had to select a mausoleum that did not have a lot of religious carvings or symbols on the exterior (and interior) that would of been representative of a faith that wasn’t Jewish.  If so, it would have to have the possibility of being concealed in someway.   

Looking at all of them, I can’t imagine a better choice.  With his eye for attention of detail and appreciation of art, how could it not of been.  Knowing some of these details and historical facts will only enhance my appreciation when I watch the film and view that scene.

[moviesceleton]

There's nothing new in this old thread but I thought it would be reasonable to gather links to old threads to one place.
About the Hotel Excelsior which was used for the dining scene: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=839.0

EDIT:
Another one, about the NYC locations, especially the bridge(s): http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=441.0

[Sergio.L]

There's enough content for a book but for maximum authenticity, impact and success, its
author should collaborate with some-one who worked on the movie or a member of the cast
such as Woods, De Niro or Scott Tiler.

Suggestions for chapters:

1. Background

2. The Book The Hoods

3. Writers and a screenplay

4. Casting

5. The movie

6. Locations

7. Enigmas and interpretations

8. Missing and deleted scenes

9. Downloads & links

great idea!

[moviesceleton]

Nice thought - there's enough content for a book but for maximum authenticity, impact and
success, its author should collaborate with some-one who worked on the movie or a member
of the cast such as Woods, De Niro or Scott Tiler.

Suggestions for chapters:

1. Background

2. The Book The Hoods

3. Writers and a screenplay

4. Casting

5. The movie

6. Locations

7. Enigmas and interpretations

8. Missing and deleted scenes

9. Downloads & links

To start with, a book or booklet about the locations alone would be great.

[marmota-b]

To start with, a book or booklet about the locations alone would be great.

Seconded. This is an impressive thread!

[marmota-b]

Please, keep them coming!