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Author Topic: Music Score in the Grotto Scene  (Read 9321 times)
Cusser
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 06:47:56 AM »

1.  Tuco was tough !!!

2.  Dramatic effect !!!


Agree corny, but interesting way for the three thugs to make their appearance, but not very realistic.  Maybe that is why it was cut.

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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 08:35:17 PM »

Personally I believe that this scene was needed to identify where the three bandits came from. Even though they meet a quick demise in the following scene, they seem to emerge from nowhere in the hotel sequence. Leone did cut this scene due to pacing issues, but I believe it was a nice addition to the extended version.

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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 03:22:57 AM »

Personally I believe that this scene was needed to identify where the three bandits came from. Even though they meet a quick demise in the following scene, they seem to emerge from nowhere in the hotel sequence. Leone did cut this scene due to pacing issues, but I believe it was a nice addition to the extended version.

I agree with that and thanks to Honest Farmer for bringing this up again last year - I never showed my appreciation.
The question still stands though - where did that little snippet of music come from? Smiley

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 12:00:10 PM »

We'll probably never know.

Unfortunately, I don't know have the skills to superimpose the soundtrack in question over the grotto scene. Perhaps Jordan Krug could assist?

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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2012, 12:56:06 PM »

Personally I believe that this scene was needed to identify where the three bandits came from.

I personally see no reason why we should have any interest in knowing where these 3 unlucky guy came from.
I have seen the 161 min version a dozen times without ever asking me that.

If this is important for you, then you should also ask where Blondie found Shorty (with whom he continues the "reward business), or where Sentenza found the men with whom he makes business in the POW camp and who later accompany him to the ghost town.

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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2012, 03:17:53 AM »

I personally see no reason why we should have any interest in knowing where these 3 unlucky guy came from.
I have seen the 161 min version a dozen times without ever asking me that.

If this is important for you, then you should also ask where Blondie found Shorty (with whom he continues the "reward business), or where Sentenza found the men with whom he makes business in the POW camp and who later accompany him to the ghost town.

I do agree with this point.
The only one that truly works for me 100% is The Fort scene. Surely we needed to know how the frig Angeleyes got to being a sergeant at Betterville.

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2012, 05:46:17 AM »

Also not really.

It was always clear for me that he only was there cause he hoped too find Carson.

We still don't know how Sentenza managed it to become a Sergeant and to be ordered to Betterville instead to the front. But if I want I can easily find my own explanation. A film needs not to explain every detail.

The scene at the fort is for me important for rhythmical reasons. And it is one scene which shows Sentenza more likable.

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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2012, 10:32:20 AM »

None of these "extra" scenes are necessary, but I want as many scenes as I can get in my favorite film. The only question that's relevant as far as I'm concerned is, Does the scene play? Certainly, the fort scene is successful, and the 6-is-a-perfect-number scene works. The Apache Canyon scene doesn't add much, but it does provide a fun cameo. The grotto scene? Maybe not . . . .

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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 01:18:58 AM »

I was tipped off earlier today by a bootleg download of the complete soundtrack from an Ennio Morricone blog site where the 2nd part of track 5 (i.e. not preceded by the rope bridge score) is titled simply, "In the Grotto (1:03)"...I then played the Grotto scene with the volume down and started "In the Grotto" track immediately after Tuco, while holding out the chicken, says, "....why do you kill yourself working?"

...At the very least, I would like to see this scene redone using the proper music.

I'm just starting to learn how to make my own custom/preservation BD/DVDs after acquiring all the necessary hardware but I got a long way to go yet.

Anyways, I thought I'd make an extremely crude attempt at syncing track 5 with the grotto scene as I described above over a year ago.

Using my laptop, I played the youtube video in the above link and played the score in iTunes and captured the video and sound using my blackberry. It sure ain't pretty and I didn't nail the synchronization perfectly (the score seems to lag a wee bit behind) but it does give you a sense how the track fits with the scene.

Here's the youtube link: CLICK HERE

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:37:22 AM by Honest Farmer » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 03:55:22 AM »

It does fit, I don't remember what it has on the SE now though to compare.

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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2012, 09:23:54 AM »

It does fit, I don't remember what it has on the SE now though to compare.

Here is the score on the SE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdGpayem0jw&feature=fl_lolz&playnext=1&list=FLNppY1jPLVuM

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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2012, 10:48:57 AM »

It fits!
I still hate the scene Cheesy

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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2012, 11:32:00 AM »

It fits!
I still hate the scene Cheesy

the first time I saw GBU (was my first Leone film ever), I thought the first half moved terribly slowly. Almost shut the movie off. And I remember particularly hating this scene. I thought it was just ridiculous. Sounded weird to me too; I had no idea then about the whole re-dubbing stuff.

Now, taken on its own, I actually think it's a pretty funny scene, as a distinct episode. It's meaningless for the story -- does it REALLY bother anyone how Tuco could recruit men? Really? Certain things in Westerns are a given. Gunslingers have an endless supply of bullets. They always have cigars. Even when TWWNN is beaten uyp and escapes into hiding in the mine shaft, he somehow seems to have in his pocket an endless supply of toscanos; though in that case his pocket should look like it's bulging. Certain things are just accepted. Is it that hard for one mexican gunslinger/con-man to recruit a few others on a job? -- and it certainly should not have been put into the movie itself, for the simple reason that Leone didn't want it there. I couldn't believe the nerve of John Jerk, on the GBU bonus materials, explaining that despite Leone's removing it, Jerk decided it would be "jarring for the viewer to suddenly see Tuco have these 3 men" (while using the fact that it was shown once, at the Rome Premier, as having a historical basis for leaving it in, even though Leone himself removed it after that premier). Really, cocksucker? YOU should be the one deciding what is jarring for the viewer, rather than the man who made the movie? You know, I guess we should all be forced to say a prayer thanking God every day for John Jerk, without whom our movies would all be jarring. Maybe all directors should consult with the Jerk on final cuts of their films. he can get the title of "Anti-Jarring Supervisor." Maybe he should start a school for it, with the degree "AJS." In addition to having an A.C.E. filming the movie, it should be required to have an A.J.S. to ensure that the jarringness is up to Jerkian standards.  To all you fans who enjoyed GBU for 35 years, you are a bunch of losers -- you were watching a jarring movie without even knowing it, till The Jerk rescued you  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

And of course, what would you do without Jerk's gunshots? Cuz Jerk knows best about pistols. And Jerk decided that Leone's gunshots wouldn't fit with Jerk's beautiful new audio. Glad to know we have someone looking out for us  Roll Eyes

Alright, I'll stop there.  I should get started talking about the Jerk cuz it's hard to stop. I just couldn't believe the utter audacity he had to look into the camera and say that he decided the movie would be jarring and therefore changed Leone's work.


But I am definitely happy the scene is available; I just wish it was in the bonus materials.

And as for restoring the audio from all the deleted scenes, I may be in the minority, but I actually am happy that they used the American voices -- the elderly Wallach and Eastwood, and a voice actor for Van Cleef -- rather than using the Italian audio. I understand that Leone didn't supervise it of course, but let's face it, with all the dubbing post-synchronized anyway, what are the choices? the only other option is to use the Italian dub with English subtitles. IMO that is no less jarring than hearing the voices from 35 years later.  And for those of you who disagree with me and prefer the Italian dib with English subtitles for those scenes -- I believe that all the deleted scenes are available as bonus materials on the single dvd MGM released in 1998, in Italian, though i am not sure if there are English subtitles for that scene). Plus it has awful quality with bad film and a shitload of grain, so it's perfect for the purists  Wink) So this way, between the SE and the single disc, we have both the Italian dub and the 35 years later dub  Smiley

---

My dream fan edit of this movie is as follows (I'd be happy to pay for it. Please PM me if you wanna make it for me)

Scenes: All scenes in the Special Edition, with the following 2 changes: the Cave Scene should be deleted, and the full Torture/Orchestra Scene should be used.

Audio: The original English mono. For the restored scenes, use the 35-years-later English audio. For the Torture Scene, I'd use the Italian dub (cuz no English dub exists for the extended Torture Scene)


« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 08:20:12 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2012, 10:08:15 PM »

I feel I can tell the difference between Van Cleef's voice and Simon Prescott's.  And I assume that if they had used voice actors instead of Eastwood and Wallach for the extra scenes, that there'd still be a mis-match.  Sure, Wallach did his in New York, and Eastwood in California, but I bet they did this for free, and what a great honor.  Wallach still says strangers come up to him with "Tuco !!!". 

I've seen stills: Eastwood was more than "just an actor", he's helping.  One scene shows him in street clothes making suggestions to Tuco, another shows him about to go in helicopter over Sad Hill with Leone.

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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2012, 10:42:02 PM »

I feel I can tell the difference between Van Cleef's voice and Simon Prescott's.  And I assume that if they had used voice actors instead of Eastwood and Wallach for the extra scenes, that there'd still be a mis-match.  Sure, Wallach did his in New York, and Eastwood in California, but I bet they did this for free, and what a great honor.  Wallach still says strangers come up to him with "Tuco !!!". 

I've seen stills: Eastwood was more than "just an actor", he's helping.  One scene shows him in street clothes making suggestions to Tuco, another shows him about to go in helicopter over Sad Hill with Leone.

yeah of course you can tell the difference.

And the actor who dubbed the deleted parts with Aldo Giuffre 35 years later, was also not the same guy who dubbed the English for Giuffre's part in 1968. And that's obvious too.

But the other option is using the Italian audio with English subtitles? Is that any less jarring? Not for me. I'm happy the way it is with the later dubbing. And if you prefer the Italian dub for those scenes, that's available for you on the bonus features of the 1998 dvd: it has all the deleted scenes (besides the Cave Scene) with Italian audio.

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