Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 26, 2018, 12:27:14 AM
:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Other/Miscellaneous
| |-+  Off-Topic Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Chinatown (1974)
0 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 11
: Chinatown (1974)  ( 38528 )
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8054



« #75 : January 12, 2012, 04:27:07 PM »

Which one, the original with Edmund O'Brien or the remake with Dennis Quaid?

The O'Brien, of course.


cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128


easy come easy go


« #76 : January 12, 2012, 06:10:14 PM »

Original D.O.A. definitely Noir in my book  O0


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8054



« #77 : January 12, 2012, 06:23:23 PM »

Original D.O.A. definitely Noir in my book  O0

Wasn't it  "flooded with light with way way too many day shots."?


noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5346


Lonesome Billy


« #78 : January 13, 2012, 04:26:03 AM »

Chinatown is obviously Polanski's attempt to make a modern Noir. He probably asked himself "what should a Noir shot in the 70's be?" and his answer is Chinatown. One could argue for years without having a final answer to the question "is it really a noir/neonoir/pi/metanoir/post-modern-noir/and the like" but I guess we can agree about the following terminology: it's a 70's Noir.

You can thank me now that I just saved you 10 years of discussions.

« : January 13, 2012, 04:27:11 AM noodles_leone »


New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
stanton
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3121



« #79 : January 13, 2012, 05:26:28 AM »

Thanks


cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128


easy come easy go


« #80 : January 13, 2012, 05:47:56 AM »

Wasn't it  "flooded with light with way way too many day shots."?

Not obviously as much as Chinatown, at any rate, Before I answered you, I Youtubed it to refresh myself on D.O.A. and the first half was almost entirely dark, I admit I didn't go further than about 1/2 through though. It could be the B&W as opposed to Color cuts some slack to B&W Noirs.


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14064

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #81 : January 13, 2012, 06:16:36 AM »

Chinatown is obviously Polanski's attempt to make a modern Noir. He probably asked himself "what should a Noir shot in the 70's be?" and his answer is Chinatown. One could argue for years without having a final answer to the question "is it really a noir/neonoir/pi/metanoir/post-modern-noir/and the like" but I guess we can agree about the following terminology: it's a 70's Noir.

You can thank me now that I just saved you 10 years of discussions.
If you listen to the interviews with Polanski and Towne, the term noir is never used. Indeed, in 1974 it was not the ubiquitous term it is today. Towne talks about Chandler and sometimes they say things like "these kinds of movies" but the N-word is never around. Clearly, Towne, Polanski, and also Evans wanted a "modern" looking film. Towne also prides himself on having avoided melodrama, and his decision not to use voice-over also speaks to his desire to present Chandler-esque material without many of the trappings of Chandler. In fact, he wanted to make things less stylized, more naturalistic, more "real," as he was telling a fictional story based on actual history. Then you have Polanski's shooting/editing choices, which are very different than standard Hollywood (then, or earlier) and then John Alonzo's "radical" approach to lighting. The final product is something that is very different to what we know as "noir" today. We can see vestiges of Chandler in the work, as well as references to the PI genre, but, again, to use the N-word is highly misleading.



That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5346


Lonesome Billy


« #82 : January 13, 2012, 06:30:31 AM »

DJ, this movie is almost the OUATITW of Noir, it takes everything from noir films and say "now it's gonna be this way". Femme fatale, evil millionaire, corrupted-but-not-evil-police officer, dark backstory, anti hero, hats. They even have a couple "silhouette seen through glass door" shots.
The logic is exactly the same as in Memento: in Memento's audio commentary, Nolan says he was trying to make a modern Noir and argues that even if regular noir films tend to be stylised, they were already trying to capture reality. Characters have cool hats in it because regular people at the time used to wear cool hats. Noir is not about the look, and that's exactly what Polanski tried to show. Was he right? Did he and Nolan made Noir films? No idea, I don't know Noir as much as many people here, but they obviously made "modern noir films". All you can say about that is that may be they betrayed or didn't get what Noir really is, but that's another question.



New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128


easy come easy go


« #83 : January 13, 2012, 06:38:16 AM »

DJ, this movie is almost the OUATITW of Noir, it takes everything from noir films and say "now it's gonna be this way". Femme fatale, evil millionaire, corrupted-but-not-evil-police officer, dark backstory, anti hero, hats. They even have a couple "silhouette seen through glass door" shots.
The logic is exactly the same as in Memento: in Memento's audio commentary, Nolan says he was trying to make a modern Noir and argues that even if regular noir films tend to be stylised, they were already trying to capture reality. Characters have cool hats in it because regular people at the time used to wear cool hats. Noir is not about the look, and that's exactly what Polanski tried to show. Was he right? Did he and Nolan made Noir films? No idea, I don't know Noir as much as many people here, but they obviously made "modern noir films". All you can say about that is that may be they betrayed or didn't get what Noir really is, but that's another question.

Actually you should watch "Farewell My Lovely" (1975) that's the way a modern noir should be shot, but that is my opinion.


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5346


Lonesome Billy


« #84 : January 13, 2012, 08:05:20 AM »

Just seen the trailer, looks interesting. I'll definitely see it.
 But that's another debate if you ask me. If someone think slomo shouldn't be in a western, that does not make The Wild Bunch a non-western movie.



New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14064

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #85 : January 13, 2012, 08:29:32 AM »

DJ, this movie is almost the OUATITW of Noir
No, it's the OUATITW of PI films. People seem to be conflating "noir" with "PI films" but the two are different. Some PI films are noirs, but many, many more noirs are not PI films.

Chinatown draws very heavily on Chandler, Farewell, My Lovely and (especially) The Big Sleep (Gittes first visit to the Mulwray home is one of the few moments where TBS is specifically alluded to). But the allusions are more toward the novel than the film adaptation. What interested the filmmakers were not the films of the past, but actual past events. They went out of their way to be "un-cinematic."



That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1666



« #86 : January 13, 2012, 03:23:36 PM »

Chinatown doesn't have a style that in any way approximates the industry practices of 1940 -1960. For one thing, it's almost impossible to do noir in 2.35:1 (no sense of claustrophobia). Secondly, Polanski's decision to film things from Nicholson's side,rather than his POV, undercuts the audience's identification with the character (the paucity of reaction shots does this also). Never has a film actor done so much acting with his back. The decision not to use diffusion on Faye Dunaway also meant a less glamorized image of the leading lady. And the use of 40mm lenses allowed the set designers to show off their work in a new way: the audience could finally see what the sets actually looked like. Finally, the film has any number of long takes that even Preminger would have been afraid to use.

Then you have Polanski's shooting/editing choices, which are very different than standard Hollywood (then, or earlier) and then John Alonzo's "radical" approach to lighting. The final product is something that is very different to what we know as "noir" today. We can see vestiges of Chandler in the work, as well as references to the PI genre, but, again, to use the N-word is highly misleading.

DJ I'm glad you enjoyed my post of the John Alonzo interview, but I'm afraid I really don't follow your interpretation of it.

Film noir was shot in what is called "low key" light. That is to say that the ratio between the hard, direct "key" light and the soft, diffused "filler" light was huge. This was very different from the standard practice of having a small ratio between the two which used the diffused filler light extensively to even out the harsh shadows caused by the key light. The Femme Fatales were shot in this "low key" light to give them a harsher, more accentuated, beauty that suited their roles perfectly. Consequently when Polanski asked Alonzo to shoot without diffusion, he was basically asking him to shoot her in a noir style.

As for the lens, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a 40mm anamorphic lens is extremely wide. Allowing the edges of the film to go dark would create a very claustrophobic noir look which, as Alonzo puts it, creates an effect like an old-fashioned view camera.

Consequently, in terms of cinematography, Chinatown is very much Polanski's homage to film noir. The style has just been updated in accordance with more modern technology to make it the very epitome of "neo-noir".

To give you a good counterpoint, L.A. Confidential is often called a "neo-noir" but in terms of cinematography it does not qualify.

sargatanas
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 283


« #87 : January 14, 2012, 12:47:38 AM »

classic chinatown excerpt, Gettes to uptight male Libraryin : "  How about a ruler ? "
http://www.traileraddict.com/clip/chinatown/how-about-a-ruler
    O0

« : January 14, 2012, 02:25:37 AM sargatanas »
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14064

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #88 : January 14, 2012, 03:28:35 AM »

Film noir was shot in what is called "low key" light. That is to say that the ratio between the hard, direct "key" light and the soft, diffused "filler" light was huge. This was very different from the standard practice of having a small ratio between the two which used the diffused filler light extensively to even out the harsh shadows caused by the key light. The Femme Fatales were shot in this "low key" light to give them a harsher, more accentuated, beauty that suited their roles perfectly. Consequently when Polanski asked Alonzo to shoot without diffusion, he was basically asking him to shoot her in a noir style.
Point taken.

Quote
As for the lens, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a 40mm anamorphic lens is extremely wide. Allowing the edges of the film to go dark would create a very claustrophobic noir look which, as Alonzo puts it, creates an effect like an old-fashioned view camera.
I don't see that effect in the frames. I see images full of natural light (which is sometimes artificially achieved). In any event, the look of Chinatown generally is very different from the look one associates with so-called film noir.



That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13128


easy come easy go


« #89 : January 14, 2012, 03:46:10 AM »

Point taken.
I don't see that effect in the frames. I see images full of natural light (which is sometimes artificially achieved). In any event, the look of Chinatown generally is very different from the look one associates with so-called film noir.

I would say definitely agree


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 11  
« previous next »
:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
0.066142