Just dug out my old laserdisc...

[Jordan Krug]

remember when John Kirk said in the extra features on the newer dvd that they only ever had a pan and scan english version that had the complete ending to the beating scene and the extra few seconds of Manco lighting his cigar during his introduction? So they were forced to put the out-of-sync version with the trims etc on dvd cause it was the only letterboxed source they had?

Well, I pulled out my old laserdisc of the film and it's the complete version, with those moments and in sync, just like my old pan and scan vhs. And it's letterboxed.....guess that's the version I'll be watching from now on.....thanks a lot mgm.....

[Groggy]

I haven't seen the complete end to the beating since the first time I ever saw the movie on TBS a number of years ago. It's something that's always aggravated me.

[Dirty Rat]

Is John Kirk the geezer that reckoned the original gun shots from GBU became unworkable with since they re-mixed the soundtrack into Dolby 5:1?
Personally I think that when you turn lose a team of people like that onto a project like restoring these 3 films they don't know when to stop. I don't have any complaints about FOD but like the other two posters here have always felt a bit pee-d off about the cut beating scene in FAFDM.
Also the cut down scene where Indio giggles insanely in the prison yard annoys me. I always found that bit so creepy, I guess it still is actually.
However these two films I can live with and I think they look great.

They have however ruined GBU for me. Fortunately I saw it that many times on a vhs taped from the TV when I was younger that I still remember how it did sound. Sure the picture quality is great but the new gun shots sound like something from a modern action film dubbed over a film that is supposed to be set in the 1860's - oh hang on, that IS what they have done.....

Some of the dubbing is absolutely dreadful too. The Grotto scene in particular.

I also think that the new scripts leave little to be desired in places. Would the captain at the Fort really have said something like "Mmm our hotel is full of luxurious cuisine with no expenses spared" (not 100% accurate I know) when the film was originally written. Just seems a bit naff to me.
The original gun shots, and cannon fire for that matter were all totally different and were so important to making the film what it was, I thought. Now I believe they are all the same. They are also far too loud and I have to turn down the TV when watching the film.
Gosh, what a moan!

I used to love watching the film and although I was thrilled to see all the new bits back in '04 when it came out I think I wish that you could remove the extra scenes and watch them as extras - like someone wrote he a while ago

[dave jenkins]

I used to love watching the film and although I was thrilled to see all the new bits back in '04 when it came out I think I wish that you could remove the extra scenes and watch them as extras - like someone wrote he a while ago

You can with this edition, still available (and only $7.49): http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?afsrc=1&ean=27616672926&rv=1

[marmota-b]

I'm wondering what version do I have... any hints on how to learn?

[Jordan Krug]

I'm wondering what version do I have... any hints on how to learn?

well a quick rundown is like this:

-old mgm pan and scan vhs (and now as I recently discovered also the letterboxed laserdisc- although I looked at it again and it's 1:85, not 2:35) has a slightly different intro on Eastwood - specifically, when he lights his cigar in the rain, a thunderclap is heard as he reveals his face (all other versions have this thunderclap before he lifts his head)...*then he walks off screen*...also has the small scene after the beating (of Indio and Groggy discussing their next move...) and a second of extra indio laughing during his intro that cuts better with the poster.....this is basically the same as the italian version (but the italian version has more of the beating itself-specifically a moment when Eastwood's arms are held and he is booted in the back - you can see this version on youtube)

-mgm then released (on vhs) a letterboxed version of the film, but it was completely out of sync and missing the two moments above (there are slight differences in sound/music cues as well)

-this same version was put out on dvd and was the only version available for years...

-a restored mgm version was released recently as part of the leone boxset - now back in sync, but STILL missing those two bits

-there's also a german set of fod and fafdm where the picture was cleaned up more then the mgm version (more noticable on FOD)- but since their source was the MGM hi-def masters, those small bits are missing

-my feeling is that when the blu-ray version is released, it's STILL going to be missing those two bits....no reason to think otherwise

So why all the noise about two little things? Well I grew up on the vhs and I remember that thunderclap as Eastwood lifts his face - it's WAY more effective...and every time I see the shortened version it kinda throws me off.....I just hate the fact that they released the original version, then swapped it for a truncated version, and we're stuck with that one now...

So for all the restoration work MGM has done on the film, and all of John Kirk's speeches on the dvd on how they searched high and wide for the best elements etc etc....they still haven't fixed this error. I don't understand why they don't take the two scenes from the italian prints/dvd masters, and use the existing versions they once had in their library (and released in english) for the english sound dialog (on the after-the-beating scene)...

Hope this helps...if anyone else has any other info, please feel free to add it....

[marmota-b]

Mine is 2.35 and probably the restored version, then. Thanks for the info. It's the only version I've ever seen, so I had no clue.

[Jordan Krug]

arrrrgggghhhhh - turns out my laserdisc is yet ANOTHER version, it's missing the line "he said his name was Manco" and the 2nd and 3rd gunshots by indio intro the jail wardens office!!! too many VERSIONS!!!!

[sergios specs]

i am fortunate enough to own an italian boxed set of all leone's westerns and on FAFDM the small scene at the end of the beating is missing. just as it is on all other dvd versions. even TGTBTU is shorter than the resored version and i'm not talking about the grotto scene. tuco's beating is really short and when blondie says sorry to tuco before riding off with gold. that little part is also missing.when joe is beaten in AFOD esteban stubs out a cigar on joe's hand, i can't remember seeing that on the english version, but i could be wrong,as usual.all the credits on the boxed set dvd's are in italian except FAFDM, which are in english.

[uncknown]

Is John Kirk the geezer that reckoned the original gun shots from GBU became unworkable with since they re-mixed the soundtrack into Dolby 5:1?
Personally I think that when you turn lose a team of people like that onto a project like restoring these 3 films they don't know when to stop. I don't have any complaints about FOD but like the other two posters here have always felt a bit pee-d off about the cut beating scene in FAFDM.
Also the cut down scene where Indio giggles insanely in the prison yard annoys me. I always found that bit so creepy, I guess it still is actually.
However these two films I can live with and I think they look great.

They have however ruined GBU for me. Fortunately I saw it that many times on a vhs taped from the TV when I was younger that I still remember how it did sound. Sure the picture quality is great but the new gun shots sound like something from a modern action film dubbed over a film that is supposed to be set in the 1860's - oh hang on, that IS what they have done.....

Some of the dubbing is absolutely dreadful too. The Grotto scene in particular.

I used to love watching the film and although I was thrilled to see all the new bits back in '04 when it came out I think I wish that you could remove the extra scenes and watch them as extras - like someone wrote he a while ago

John Kirk is the devil!
If the leone films were in B&W he would colorize them!

I have the FAFDM laser. The ratio is 2:00

I am confused about the complaints re the beating scene. The new dvd has the full-lenght version does it not? It is certainly longer than all other versions.

Getting back to John Jerk and co. I tried listening to the "stereo' version of FAF and turned it off after the Manco scene. This incompetent idiot would change the sound field every time a character was talking off-screen. Annoying  bullshit.
Paramount has shown how you can "stereoize' mono films and keep the integrity of the original. OUITW dubs the original stereo music tracks over the mono and leaves the sound effects pretty much alone; no fake directional sfx. (they also did this with MARATHON MAN)  .

the French soundtrack to DYS was done that way also and is far superior to the English remix (admittedly the music is not as potent).
Give me GBU in mono with the restored Angel Eyes scene at the fort and i will be happy!


PS check out Jirk's ridiculous "interpretation' of the love triangle in DYS (i.e. it was Mallory who was the informer; he turned in his friend over jealousy- I KID YOU NOT).

[The Firecracker]

John Kirk is the devil!

I don't suppose this is the same old cocksucker I had a fight with at a screening for the "newly restored" OUATITW print is it?

Where is that thread?

[marmota-b]

I don't suppose this is the same old cocksucker I had a fight with at a screening for the "newly restored" OUATITW print is it?

Where is that thread?

You mean this one?
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=7097.15

[The Firecracker]

You mean this one?
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=7097.15

That's the one.
Thanks Marmota.

[The clint]

PS check out Jirk's ridiculous "interpretation' of the love triangle in DYS (i.e. it was Mallory who was the informer; he turned in his friend over jealousy- I KID YOU NOT).

That was actually Glenn Erickson of DVDSavant (Which is a website that denied in it's review of the Leone box-set that the music cues were wrong for Duck You Sucker), he's just as big an idiot as John Kirk is.

I've given up on MGM getting these movies right, next summer I will make my own Blu-Ray version of GBU (and DYS when it's released on Blu-Ray). I will remove the remastered audio and replace it with the mono track from the original MGM disc, then cross-fade it to the mono Italian for the additional scenes. I will also try to include the international version with a "seamless branching" feature. BD downloads take a long time although I hope I can make it available for download sometime in the future.

[The Peacemaker]

he's just as big an idiot as John Kirk is.

That name's poison 'round these parts ever since the days of the DYS dvd release!

If I see one more person say that the final flashback was suppose to show how Sean became jealous I will personally show up at Kirk's home and break a hammer over his skull...