Mystery of the "Girls in Agua Calente" not quite solved...but figured out

[Jordan Krug]

The only thing I've been able to figure out is WHERE and WHEN this scene takes place....WHERE - by looking at the bg of the photos and the shot where Manco gets up -look at the door and the hanging blanket for starters- , and WHEN.... it's just after Mortimer opens the safe and BEFORE Eastwood gets up to steal the money (it's at night judging from the open door behind Indio)...maybe there was another drunk party scene ala fistful where he fooled them into thinking he was drunk? I definitely think this was a real scene, not just behind the scene photos etc....1. Gian volonte seems IN character 2. Manco and Groggy are pointing their guns at each other - remember, earlier that day, Manco slugged Groggy - maybe there was some more tension in this scene? (and Groggy is asleep in the same spot in the wide shot in the film as he is sitting in the photo-and Manco's hat is in the same spot as well) 3. a scene would fit here in the narrative, they're celebrating a successful robbery...

[cigar joe]

cool thanks for that!

[marmota-b]

Thanks for the observation.

[Le Bon]

It certainly seems to all fit in. Nice detective work again Jordan. Well done!!

[Clinton]

The only thing I've been able to figure out is WHERE and WHEN this scene takes place....WHERE - by looking at the bg of the photos and the shot where Manco gets up -look at the door and the hanging blanket for starters- , and WHEN.... it's just after Mortimer opens the safe and BEFORE Eastwood gets up to steal the money (it's at night judging from the open door behind Indio)...maybe there was another drunk party scene ala fistful where he fooled them into thinking he was drunk? I definitely think this was a real scene, not just behind the scene photos etc....1. Gian volonte seems IN character 2. Manco and Groggy are pointing their guns at each other - remember, earlier that day, Manco slugged Groggy - maybe there was some more tension in this scene? (and Groggy is asleep in the same spot in the wide shot in the film as he is sitting in the photo-and Manco's hat is in the same spot as well) 3. a scene would fit here in the narrative, they're celebrating a successful robbery...

You are right, well done! Volonte is bringing a girl over to Manco/Eastwood. In the original (6 x 6) photo shown on the lower left you can see (in the foreground) a woman lying facing towards Volonte and you can make out an arm (with a white sleeve) coming around her - obviously Groggy.

[iceman]

You are right, well done! Volonte is bringing a girl over to Manco/Eastwood. In the original (6 x 6) photo shown on the lower left you can see (in the foreground) a woman lying facing towards Volonte and you can make out an arm (with a white sleeve) coming around her - obviously Groggy.

So Volonte has gone and got 3 women..one each for Manco, Groggy and himself??

ICE

[Le Bon]

Here is another photo from this scene. I found this in a german program which account for the cut out look to it. That isn't someone standing to the left it's just another photo that was overlaid. Manco must have had a few drinks. Maybe he's trying to make his peace with Groggy.



Shot at 2007-11-05

[cigar joe]

Yea, I agree its not a behind the scenes image, the women all look in costume for sure. 

[Jordan Krug]

Hier is another photo from this scene. I found this in a german program which account for the cut out look to it. That isn't someone standing to the left it's just another photo that was overlaid. Manco must have had a few drinks. Maybe he's trying to make his peace with Groggy.



Shot at 2007-11-05

Cool - thanks for the new shot! The one other thing about this scene is that Fraying in both his books and his commentary tracks says that there is a slight idea in the film that since the incident with Mortimer's sister, Indio has been *ahem* shall we say "unable to use his pistol" with women....maybe this was a scene that illustrated that more clearly?

[dave jenkins]

Cool - thanks for the new shot! The one other thing about this scene is that Fraying in both his books and his commentary tracks says that there is a slight idea in the film that since the incident with Mortimer's sister, Indio has been *ahem* shall we say "unable to use his pistol" with women....maybe this was a scene that illustrated that more clearly?

Or a scene which contradicted the idea. Ultimately, though, Leone may have decided to present Indio as impotent (per Sir Chris's later reading). In which case, that would explain why the scene was cut.

[drinkanddestroy]

where is there any evidence for the "impotent Indio" theory?

[Jordan Krug]

where is there any evidence for the "impotent Indio" theory?

I'll have to listen to the commentary again, it's definitely a theory of Frayling's that he discusses on the FAFDM dvd, I think he's basically saying that the woman wanting to kill herself rather than be loved by Indio messed him up psychologically/and that led to some weaknesses in his character, maybe physical. I don't know where the evidence for this is exactly, I'll have to keep the idea in mind next time I watch the film.

[drinkanddestroy]

I'll have to listen to the commentary again, it's definitely a theory of Frayling's that he discusses on the FAFDM dvd, I think he's basically saying that the woman wanting to kill herself rather than be loved by Indio messed him up psychologically/and that led to some weaknesses in his character, maybe physical. I don't know where the evidence for this is exactly, I'll have to keep the idea in mind next time I watch the film.

yeah, I know Frayling says it -- it's just after Indio's final flashback. (I think it's in Cumbow's book as well, but that thing is a worthless piece of shit). It's just that I don't see any evidence for it in the movie. As much as I love and admire Frayling, I am not gonna believe something like that just because he says it, if I see no evidence of it

[dave jenkins]

It's an inference that I accept. Note that after each time he kills, Indio likes to relax with a smoke (likely Jimson weed). This is cinematic code for post-coital recovery. As he relaxes, he listens to the watch chime and/or has the flashback about the girl. He doesn't seem to have any desire/need for women, and instead gets release by firing his gun. The fact that the girl and the flashback are tied in with his particular kink can lead one, if you are so minded, to speculate that the fact of the girl killing herself instead of her allowing herself to be raped did a real number on Indio's head. You don't have to accept that interpretation, but it's there if you want it and it's not much of a stretch.

Not unexpectedly, the Sergio Leone Encyclopedia has an entry on this very subject:

Indio also El Indio. The psychotic villain in FAFDM played by Gian Maria Volonte. Some have commented on the substance he frequently smokes. Frayling insists it is marijuana, but a likelier candidate is Jimson weed. How to read his final moments? One interpretation: when he closes his hand around the watch, he is affirming receipt of a prize long sought. Why is the watch, and the memory it evokes, so important to Indio? What is the longing at the heart of his obsession? It would be hard to argue that the dead girl is the chief object of interest; he may not have even known her. It can't be regret, either for what happened to the girl or for his unfulfilled lust. Indio is incapable of regret. The failed rape is the defining moment in Indio's life. He had intended to deliver the girl to la petite mort, but she chose its greater cousin instead. Ever after, Indio has been obsessed with death, following it, watching it in the eyes of those he kills. After this prolonged flirtation, MORTimer, with il Monco officiating, brings Indio to the point of consumation.

[dave jenkins]

(I think it's in Cumbow's book as well, but that thing is a worthless piece of shit).

No it isn't. Did you read his chapter on Morricone?