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: Indio: Madman or drug addict?  ( 14460 )
amorin
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« : May 11, 2008, 10:16:05 AM »

Here is something strange I have noticed... In the English version of the scene where Mortimer discusses security issues with the director of the bank of El Paso, the director claims that only a fool would try to rob his bank... to which Mortimer adds: or a complete madman... Now, in the French version I own, the translation of Mortimer's reply is: *... ou un drogue*, that is: *... or a drug addict*, most probably referring to Indio's habit of smoking marijuana... I wonder why the English and French versions differ like that... Any thoughts?  :D

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« #1 : May 11, 2008, 01:52:03 PM »

Different points of emphasis? Perhaps Indio is both a madman AND a drug addict, and in Anglo-Saxon culture madness is seen as the greater horror. The effete French, on the other hand, are more repelled by substance abuse.



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« #2 : May 12, 2008, 05:18:19 AM »

As usual, I'd love to know what's in the original...



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« #3 : May 12, 2008, 06:43:45 AM »

Do you mean the Italian dub? With Leone, there is no "original" language because the films were intended from the very beginning to go out internationally in a variety of languages.



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« #4 : May 12, 2008, 06:49:59 AM »

Different points of emphasis? Perhaps Indio is both a madman AND a drug addict, and in Anglo-Saxon culture madness is seen as the greater horror. The effete French, on the other hand, are more repelled by substance abuse.

I'd like to know how did you get to this?

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« #5 : May 12, 2008, 09:24:22 AM »

Do you mean the Italian dub? With Leone, there is no "original" language because the films were intended from the very beginning to go out internationally in a variety of languages.

OK, I mean Italian. The writers were Italian, weren't they?



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« #6 : May 12, 2008, 04:52:30 PM »

I'd like to know how did you get to this?
Notice that the word "perhaps" renders the entire statement conjectural. Also consider the possibility that it was meant as a provocation.



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« #7 : May 12, 2008, 04:57:40 PM »

OK, I mean Italian. The writers were Italian, weren't they?
True, but irrelevant. Screenplays are necessary for the creation of feature films, but they have no special status. They are by their very nature provisional. A film is not an adaptation of a screenplay, neither is a screenplay a film's Ur-text. The film itself is the Ur-text.



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« #8 : May 13, 2008, 09:34:10 AM »

Consider me an ignorant, then. I stop asking questions.



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« #9 : May 13, 2008, 04:48:35 PM »

 ??? I wasn't trying to belittle you. I'm just trying to insist on certain distinctions that don't usually get applied but which should operate when the subject is Leone.



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« #10 : May 13, 2008, 10:02:46 PM »

Being an addict may have created his becoming a madman...or perhaps he is a madman who enjoys being an addict.  I think he is both a madman AND a drug addict...among other things. 

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« #11 : May 14, 2008, 01:41:29 AM »

I believe that Indio is a madman and that Leone intended for it to be interpreted that way. I then think that the idea of him smoking a bit of weed enhanced the 'wickedness'* about him  particularly when you consider that we first see him having a toke after shooting the family who grassed him in in the first place.
Accompanied with the music (strings?) and the fact that he really gesticulates the motion that he is desperate for one really establishes what he's like.

I don't however think that he is supposed to be, or comes across as a drug addict. I think he is bordering on the insane and a little smoke every now and again (like when you've murdered someone) chills him down. Who knows what inspired Leone to include this in his character and the film, it is quite strange for the time that the film was made and when the film set. I remember Frayling talking about this is in the extras.

* I know that smoking weed isn't wicked but it's prop that works in the film for the audience and could help to portray the idea of 'evil' or 'madness'

To summarise my point, I think that the use of drug addict in the French dub is an oversight or fault in the translation process


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« #12 : May 14, 2008, 02:23:50 AM »

Cigar Joe has spoken to this point in another thread, where he plausibly suggests that the drug in question is Jimson Weed (sometimes known as "loco weed"). Apparently, the abuse of this substance could lead to actual madness.



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« #13 : May 14, 2008, 03:20:59 AM »

Its hard to say since its never mentioned what it is by name. But here is the dope on Jimson weed.   8) O0


Overview: Jimson weed is a common name for a plant known botanically as Datura stramonium, which has been used as a medicine and intoxicant for centuries. The plant's main ingredients are the belladonna alkaloids atropine and scopolamine. Since Jimson weed is native to much of the U.S. (from New England to Texas), it's most often used by young people in those areas unfamiliar with its reputation and unprepared for its side effects.

Street Names: Thornapple, stinkweed, locoweed

Appearance: Jimson weed can reach a height of 5 feet, bearing white flowers and prickly seed pods that split open when ripe, usually in fall.

Effects: The phrase "Red as a beet, dry as a bone, blind as a bat, mad as a hatter" has been used to describe Jimson's effects, and it does a good job of summing them up. All parts of the plant are toxic, so pleasant effects are limited -- a big reason the plant is used only by novices. Atropine and scopolamine block the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, causing dry mouth, dilated pupils, high temperature (but reduced sweating), and blurred vision. Psychological effects include confusion, euphoria, and delirium.

Side Effects/Risks: Potential for accidental poisoning increases with higher doses. Symptoms include incoherent speech, impaired coordination; rapid heart beat; and dry, flushed or hot skin. In extreme cases, users can experience seizures, intense visual or auditory hallucinations, or cardiac arrest. A Jimson weed overdose should be considered potentially serious and medical intervention sought.


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« #14 : May 14, 2008, 03:41:12 AM »

Thanks, Joe. Notice that one of the side-effects is hallucinations. Elsewhere I have argued that those are what Indio experiences in the "flashbacks."



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