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Author Topic: Why does this movie fair so poorly with audiences?  (Read 29349 times)
Panache
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2008, 12:04:20 PM »

Nah, I don't think American audiences would have received it well anyways. Comparing it to The Godfather it's night and day. There were plenty of blockbuster "crap" in the '70s anyway, I doubt the mainstream audiences got dumber in the meantime.

PS: What's wrong with Beverly Hills Cop? Huh

nothing if you an E Murphy fan(im not Undecided

only blockbusters bein made in 70s were usualy made by just a few directors- Spielberg, Lucas Copolla Friedkin and way less than wat came out in 80s and after. foreign films did way better in 60s -70s than they did later.

only big foreign i can remember in 80s that made tons of money was Crocdile Dundee

just a suppose question- say Leone was unknown director in 1984, walks into studio and says 'i want to make some really long westerns 2 1/2 3 hours, maybe more. th star will be a guy from an old tv show, that was on for few years. we make it in Italy with a bunch of unknowns that cant speak english, wit a few small midleaged charater actors for the cast. we dub everybody. everybdy wears dirty old clothes. the star chews on a nasty old cigar, and never shaves. we have really lomg showdowns at the end with closeups of boots, hands an squinty eyes while some opera music plays. '

1984 producer says ' sounds like great idea, mR. Leone, let us know how that works out for you. Peggy, show Mr Leone to the door....

hers a list of th big hits movies of 1984-

http://www.fast-rewind.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?target=1984&searchtype=Year


other than Terminator, thers not one on there id watch more than twice(many sorry i saw once

can you tell me with straight face that you finished watchin any of these flix an said ' wow, that one relly made me think

i dont think audiencs got dumber, studios jus started making dumber movies

and start pushing big thinking movies like America out of the way


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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2008, 12:13:28 PM »

You don't intend to?  Huh

That's quite a shame as you would be missing out on one of the most beautiful movies ever made.
In my opinion Once Upon a Time in America and Once Upon a Time in the West are the movies that are the best examples of Sergio Leone's talent as a filmmaker and a storyteller.
It's true that America is probably Leone's most violent movie and that the characters aren't exactly the most likable bunch, as a matter of fact these gangsters are some of the most vicious, brutal sons-a-bitches I've ever seen in a movie, but it's not an excessively violent movie, it's a beautiful, poetic movie about friendship and most of all about love.

I can't recommend this movie enough.

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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2008, 02:59:08 PM »

I only saw 12 of that list.

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2008, 05:20:23 PM »

I've seen:
Beverly Hills Cop
Footloose
The Muppets Take Manhattan
Red Dawn
The Terminator

And that's it.

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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2008, 05:40:56 PM »

I've seen:
Beverly Hills Cop
Footloose
The Muppets Take Manhattan
Red Dawn
The Terminator

And that's it.

Ghostbusters?

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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2008, 05:43:07 PM »

I've seen the last half-hour and that's about it.

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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2008, 06:06:05 PM »

Feel shame of yourself.

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2008, 12:06:52 AM »

Feel shame of yourself.
Not at all. An eminently missable film.

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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2008, 04:45:05 AM »

I've seen 13 of them for sure (+ two maybes):
Amadeus
Beverly Hills Cop
Children of the Corn
Ghostbusters
Gremlins
The Karate Kid
The Muppets Take Manhattan (parts, maybe)
The NeverEnding Story
A Nightmare on Elm Street
Police Academy
Repo Man
Romancing the Stone
Revenge of the Nerds (I think)
The Terminator
This Is Spinal Tap

Ghostbusters isn't nearly the worst of the bunch! A lot of good movies to watch once but I can't think of five I'd be eager to see again. But of course I can't even mention you-know-what-movie in the same post with these...

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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2008, 07:10:44 AM »

Not at all. An eminently missable film.

It's an 80s comedy, for younger audiences. Cult movie doesn't necessarily mean universally likeable, you know.

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Panache
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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2008, 10:51:16 AM »

i see nobody copped to seein Breakin 2 -eLectric boogaloo! Grin

another reason(or 2 why America dint do so well - it came out right after Scarface, kinda a tough act to follow

Scarface had just as many unliked charaters asAmerica, but America never really had the "scene", like other gangstr flix- Scarface had a bunch- the chainsaw, the guy getting hung from the copter, Pacino falling face frst into a mountin of coke, the ending.

the Godfathers had a bunch of 'scenes', Untouchables did too. Goodfelas, Casino all had scenes everybody remembers

America had the rape, but i don think anyon said later 'wow, did you see that cool rape scene!

Godfather3 dint have any big scene in it either- thats why its most boring of th 3

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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2008, 10:59:41 AM »

i see nobody copped to seein Breakin 2 -eLectric boogaloo! Grin

another reason(or 2 why America dint do so well - it came out right after Scarface, kinda a tough act to follow

Scarface had just as many unliked charaters asAmerica, but America never really had the "scene", like other gangstr flix- Scarface had a bunch- the chainsaw, the guy getting hung from the copter, Pacino falling face frst into a mountin of coke, the ending.

the Godfathers had a bunch of 'scenes', Untouchables did too. Goodfelas, Casino all had scenes everybody remembers

America had the rape, but i don think anyon said later 'wow, did you see that cool rape scene!

Godfather3 dint have any big scene in it either- thats why its most boring of th 3
I see what you mean, but one could argue that there are several "scenes" in OUATIA. For example:
The cake-eating
The rooftop scene
Rolling the drunk
Hiding the money
The "identification" scene
The salt scene
Switching the babies
etc.

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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »

i see nobody copped to seein Breakin 2 -eLectric boogaloo! Grin

another reason(or 2 why America dint do so well - it came out right after Scarface, kinda a tough act to follow

Scarface had just as many unliked charaters asAmerica, but America never really had the "scene", like other gangstr flix- Scarface had a bunch- the chainsaw, the guy getting hung from the copter, Pacino falling face frst into a mountin of coke, the ending.

the Godfathers had a bunch of 'scenes', Untouchables did too. Goodfelas, Casino all had scenes everybody remembers

America had the rape, but i don think anyon said later 'wow, did you see that cool rape scene!

Godfather3 dint have any big scene in it either- thats why its most boring of th 3

You should perhaps keep in mind that OUATIA was only released in the 144 minute film in the US, so the 229-minute version wasn't exactly "rejected" by the public...

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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2008, 07:28:26 PM »

Godfather3 dint have any big scene in it either- thats why its most boring of th 3

The Godfather III actually had a pretty good scene.  I liked the helicopter hit scene.  It stood out for me.  The hits at the end of the film during the opera presentation weren't bad.  But we had been there before with the other two films.  Granted, it was supposed to be one of the elements that all the films shared.  I had no problem with a story that involved corruption with the Vatican.  The story was just underdeveloped, the script was weak and there were casting problems.  I think it was a case of going to the well one time too many.

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You should perhaps keep in mind that OUATIA was only released in the 144 minute film in the US, so the 229-minute version wasn't exactly "rejected" by the public...


I think this is the key thing about OUATIA if you're going to analyze its reception by a theater going audience.  I think it's difficult to appraise OUATIA by the box office or the year, particularly with the editing history.  I think the reviews of the edited cut impacted the U.S. box office greatly.  The targeted adult film going audience was discouraged to go see the film based upon the reviews and word of mouth on the short incomprehensible cut.  And that some of the reviews indicated there was a superior longer cut not being shown, film goers that had an admiration for Leone or this kind of film, stayed away because they felt that they were being short changed.

I think that 1984 film list does a pretty good job listing the popular mainstream films.  Although I noticed one surprising omission.  One of the top three grossing films from that year is missing, Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom.  I've seen quite a few of those films between cable movie channels and VHS rentals, most of them I've forgotten the details, and probably would not be inclined to check out again any time soon.  Interesting to look at that list and think about 1984.  I think you can begin to see the effects of the popularity of MTV and the music video culture.  Also 1984 would be the year that would bring Miami Vice on television.  You're seeing films with a lot of popular music in their soundtracks and also quick cut editing.  I think the blockbuster film mindset that was established with Jaws and Star Wars, and some of these other things on television had their influences on the films being released in the theaters. 

If you look at that 1984 list some of the independent films of the year are not there like The Brother From Another Planet and Stranger Than Paradise.  Also not included, with the exception of Amadeus, are the "prestige", art and international films.  I'm thinking of The Killing Fields, A Passage To India, A Soldier's Story and so on.  I think at this time, and perhaps with hindsight, this is where OUATIA fit in.  No doubt everyone involved with OUATIA (even the misguided that decided to edit the film for the U.S. release), wanted a film that was critically and financially successful; that "bridged"  Smiley both categories....mainstream and prestige, art.

I think I want to say that despite some of the changes in film and television, OUATIA would of still had a chance if only they had released the film in the original longer cut.  They would of had to accept that the film would of had less showings which would of affected its profitability.  It would of potentially boosted its critical reception which could of impacted its box office.  Perhaps it would of garnered more accolades from the various critic societies and even been nominated for various things.   I don't think I could say that it just wasn't a film for that time.  If anything, it had something going for it.  It would of been a film that could of potentially done well in the U.S. market and the international markets (based upon appreciation of Leone in those markets).  Also three years later another Italian filmmaker had a film that could of been dismissed as a film that possibly shouldn't be released in its time.  It ended up winning the Academy Award for best picture of that year.    The film didn't break any box office records, but it did end up making a profit in the U.S. market and also internationally.    I guess you have to determine what "faring well" and being successful is.  What are the acceptable degrees of profitability at the box office and appreciation of the film by the audience and critics.

Really, how OUATIA has fared with audiences is an ongoing situation.  Some people were lucky to see the uncut version in the theater at some time.  Some were able to check it out uncut on VHS.  Although consider that when OUATIA was released on VHS the home video phenomenon was just beginning to explode after VHS triumphed.  I think that the recent 2003 release on DVD is an even more important stage in bringing the uncut film version to the public.  So really this is almost like a new period in how the film is being appreciated.  I think a lot more people come out on the receiving the film positively side.   

« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 10:45:22 PM by Noodles_SlowStir » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2008, 04:28:12 AM »

OUATIA wasn't a big success in countries where the "full" version was released in theaters. France, for instance. The movie ddn't lose money, but as a Leone movie staring Bob DeNiro, it was a failure everywhere, regardless the version, even if, of course, the long one worked out better than the short one.

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