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| | |-+  WHY wouldnt Tuco just take the keys from the fat guy, Wallace?
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Author Topic: WHY wouldnt Tuco just take the keys from the fat guy, Wallace?  (Read 3899 times)
cigar joe
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« on: June 18, 2008, 09:14:28 PM »

An interesting question from IMDB that has never been asked here I don't believe.
by ArchxStanton   2 days ago (Mon Jun 16 2008 18:37:37)   

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tuco jumps the fat dude wallace, then he tries to shoot the chain, then uses the butt end of the gun, then the rock then the train. why wouldnt he just look for the keys in the fat guys pockets?Huh?wtf, hes not that dumb.
 
Part of the problem with this imdb thread is a lack of knowledge.

The OP makes the topic question "WHY wouldnt Tuco just take the keys from the fat guy, Wallace?"

So right away everybody runs with that giving various expalnations, but the premiss of the question should be explored.

The OP assumes that Wallace & Tuco are "handcuffed" together, naturally assuming that then there must be a handcuff key.

But handcuffs are not the only means of restraining prisoners, the OP forgets manacles and shackles, which in the old days would have been more common and would have required a blacksmith to rivet them on and to take them off. Obviously since Tuco didn't even look for a key they were probably riveted manacles.

simple solution.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 09:18:44 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 12:52:07 AM »

An interesting question from IMDB that has never been asked here I don't believe.
by ArchxStanton   2 days ago (Mon Jun 16 2008 18:37:37)   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tuco jumps the fat dude wallace, then he tries to shoot the chain, then uses the butt end of the gun, then the rock then the train. why wouldnt he just look for the keys in the fat guys pockets?Huh?wtf, hes not that dumb.
 
Part of the problem with this imdb thread is a lack of knowledge.

The OP makes the topic question "WHY wouldnt Tuco just take the keys from the fat guy, Wallace?"

So right away everybody runs with that giving various expalnations, but the premiss of the question should be explored.

The OP assumes that Wallace & Tuco are "handcuffed" together, naturally assuming that then there must be a handcuff key.

But handcuffs are not the only means of restraining prisoners, the OP forgets manacles and shackles, which in the old days would have been more common and would have required a blacksmith to rivet them on and to take them off. Obviously since Tuco didn't even look for a key they were probably riveted manacles.

simple solution.


The answer lies in the original Italian script:

The rest of the scene (in the script) is the same as in the film, except when Tuco throws himself off the train together with Wallace, the railroad embankment is full of bush and a close-up shot shows the key for the handcuffs slipping away from Wallace and landing somewhere unknown. After Tuco has bashed Wallace’s head against a rock and says, “You made a lot of noise, amigo”, he searches Wallace’s pockets for the key. But he doesn’t find it. He reaches for the holster but then he remembers that Wallace left the revolver in the train. A little later, Tuco and the corpse of Wallace are hidden behind blackberry bushes adjacent to the railroad line. A raven circles above in the sky. Cross fade . . .

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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 04:36:56 AM »

Quote
he searches Wallace’s pockets for the key.
   Afro

But he doesn't obviously in the film, so with no close up of the devise to give us a definite answer they could have just used prop manacles. The script is just an outline the film itself is the Ur-text.

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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 11:28:12 AM »

The script is just an outline the film itself is the Ur-text.
Man, I like the way you think.

The blacksmith-forged manacle idea is interesting, I'd like to see that explicitly rendered in a film some time . . .

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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 02:43:17 PM »

I see a  adjustable "tooth" part/segment, keyhole or not? can't tell,  perhaps it was wrist fitted and then rivited to secure.

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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 05:24:06 PM »

i gotta few questions bout tht scene too

how did a little squirt like Tuco get tht big slob(dead weght -  up tht hill- Eli Wallach is only 5'7" acc. to IMDB

an thy had cowcachers on trains,then, dint thy- how did Tuco knw th nex train comin by woulnt drag him an his dead buddy for 40 miles

if ther was no key, wy dint he jus take th rock an smash fatboys wrist to pulp- a big rock wll turn flesh an bone into jello in a few minutes, i don care how big th guy is attached to it- better thn sittin around wit a stiff in th hot sun fr hours

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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 06:37:44 AM »

I always felt Tuco (who had already demonstrated substantial knowledge of guns) could've fixed and gotten Wallace's gun to fire.  On the other hand, the train scene, with Wallace's body being dragged down the tracks, is still pretty gruesome, and the whole scene is great.  Loved that theater-viewing April 28th, hadn't seen it big-screen since 1979 !!!  If UA 90th film festival hits your town, and has it, don't miss GBU (restored 180 minute version).

I'm sure Wallace would've had an army knife, pretty standard in those days, and it would've been severely gross if Tuco cut off Wallace's hand to free himself, so glad Leone didn't go that route...would've been even grosser if Tuco smashed Wallace's forearm with a rock to sever it....but maybe realistic....

« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 05:21:28 PM by Cusser » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2008, 06:55:36 PM »

I doubt wether they would let him keep a knife as a prisoner, and the fall probably bent the frame on the gun making it inoperable.

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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2008, 04:06:41 AM »

I've heard that in those days they also had a number of 'special' handcuffs, that had a 'universal' key that could open them all. Like with the slaves on the plantation, the master would have a key that would open a certain number of handcuffs.

So, it could be that Wallace really didn't have the key, but the guy o the other side (where a rope is waiting for Tuco) - yes.

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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 05:28:27 AM »

Quote
So, it could be that Wallace really didn't have the key, but the guy o the other side (where a rope is waiting for Tuco) - yes.

Yes, that is highly possible also.  Cool

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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 05:21:33 PM »


I'm sure Wallace would've had an army knife, pretty standard in those days, and it would've been severely gross if Tuco cut off Wallace's hand to free himself, so glad Leone didn't go that route...would've been even grosser if Tuco smashed Wallace's forearm with a rock to sever it....but maybe realistic....

woulda been even grosser if theyda shown Tuco layin by tht track 4 days later, wth his buddy swollen up twiec as big(an some maggots ta keep em company

those trains dint run on reliabl scheds. back then, specialy in wartime
if it be me, id been gettin loose of th big boy as quik as i cuold, an walkin

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