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Author Topic: How good is DYS?  (Read 38914 times)
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2008, 07:46:45 PM »

Kudos RR.  I couldn't have said it any better.

I agree with rr as well. Amazing film.

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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2008, 08:08:43 PM »

I wouldn't call it flawless because there are plot points that are needlessly confusing, but it is one of the greatest movies ever made.

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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 06:11:39 PM »

I just watched it for the first time.This movie is awesome.The themes of this movie are really valid right now.I love the opening scene.That tells you right then what this film was going to be about.The music was great.You can tell Leone was having fun on this one.I don't see this film as a lesser work.

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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2008, 09:00:47 PM »

Flawed Masterpiece but my favorite of Leone's.


Starts off as a fun comedy but turns into something more meaningful.
The switch can be hard on the attention span upon first viewing but give it more than one shot and I'm certain you will enjoy it.


Right.
What's frustrating is that with some judicious editing it COULD be a flat out masterpiece.

Here is how:
- speed up and prune the needlessly drawn out rape sequence AND the part where Juan and his gang torment Juan by shooting his motorbike etc.
we have seen this before with leone and coming after the knockout opening sequence it really slows the film's momentum.
- get the film to Mesa Verde quicker, dammit!
-drop the Aschenbach factory sequence. It makes no sense plot or character wise. Consequently, cut the newspaper showing John Mallory wanted for murder.

When all is said and done, this remains leone's most moving film. Surprisingly so. It stirs the soul and leaves you profoundly shaken. How many films can make that claim?
It is also the one that is most dependent on Morricone's music. This really is Morricone'e film. All things considered,   it is the score that makes the film.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 09:05:17 PM by uncknown » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 07:56:02 AM »

I didn't have a problem with any of that. If you do, there's a 138 minute version on VHS you could always seek out.

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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 08:37:01 AM »

Ditto. And the Aschenbach stuff is essential to the plot: it goes to Mallory's motivation for what follows.

I do agree about the importance of Morricone on this film. He's always important, of course, but here his stake in the game rises from his normal 40 to 50 percent or more.

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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2008, 11:56:09 AM »

Here is how:
- speed up and prune the needlessly drawn out rape sequence AND the part where Juan and his gang torment Juan by shooting his motorbike etc.
we have seen this before with leone and coming after the knockout opening sequence it really slows the film's momentum.
- get the film to Mesa Verde quicker, dammit!
-drop the Aschenbach factory sequence. It makes no sense plot or character wise. Consequently, cut the newspaper showing John Mallory wanted for murder.


I can't agree with any of that. If anything the movie needs more scenes to fill in the gaps for it to be more coherent.
The scene where Juan forces Sean through the desert needs to be found, restored and placed back into the movie.
Without that scene Mallory's attempt at murdering Juan and his family make him seem like an unlikable douche.

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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2008, 12:12:48 PM »

This desert scene would have been another 10 min at minimum for the film which is already too long in the first half. And this desert scene isn't necessary for the plot.

The whole 1st half should have been conceived and shot in a shorter way. One of the weak points of the film.

What the film lacks is instead the scene in which Villega is tortured. I always had the feeling that there was (in an emotianal way) something missing, and when I learned from the DVD that this scene was indeed shot, I was surprised Leone left it out.

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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2008, 12:24:38 PM »

This desert scene would have been another 10 min at minimum for the film which is already too long in the first half. And this desert scene isn't necessary for the plot.

The whole 1st half should have been conceived and shot in a shorter way. One of the weak points of the film.

What the film lacks is instead the scene in which Villega is tortured. I always had the feeling that there was (in an emotianal way) something missing, and when I learned from the DVD that this scene was indeed shot, I was surprised Leone left it out.

Jesus, Juan...
The desert scene would have ruined the film! Its a carbon copy of the similar scene in GBU and totally out pf place (which is why the Ascenbach scene needs to go too!)
I used to have the novelization of DYS which was bases on the script and included this sequence. I cringed as i read it.

Cant agree about the torture scene, though I have never seen it.

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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2008, 12:26:46 PM »

Ditto. And the Aschenbach stuff is essential to the plot: it goes to Mallory's motivation for what follows.

I do agree about the importance of Morricone on this film. He's always important, of course, but here his stake in the game rises from his normal 40 to 50 percent or more.

Dave, I have never understood the motivation for Sean suddenly joining the revolution.
Can you enlighten me?

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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2008, 12:28:46 PM »


I can't agree with any of that. If anything the movie needs more scenes to fill in the gaps for it to be more coherent.
The scene where Juan forces Sean through the desert needs to be found, restored and placed back into the movie.
Without that scene Mallory's attempt at murdering Juan and his family make him seem like an unlikable douche.

Wait a minute Firecracker!
my post was agreeing with YOUR post. how can you now disagree with ME? Embarrassed

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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2008, 04:35:40 PM »

This desert scene would have been another 10 min at minimum for the film which is already too long in the first half. And this desert scene isn't necessary for the plot.

The whole 1st half should have been conceived and shot in a shorter way. One of the weak points of the film.

What the film lacks is instead the scene in which Villega is tortured. I always had the feeling that there was (in an emotianal way) something missing, and when I learned from the DVD that this scene was indeed shot, I was surprised Leone left it out.

I think Leone was right to cut the torture scene. It definitely would have lessened the impact of seeing Villega as the traitor with the firing squad.

I do have a related question, though: Why did Ruiz (presumably) let Villega go after the executions? Wouldn't it have made sense to kill him too? (Or perhaps he escaped...)

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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2008, 05:10:13 PM »

Wait a minute Firecracker!
my post was agreeing with YOUR post. how can you now disagree with ME? Embarrassed

I just reread your post and I'm certain we disagree on all accounts.

Stanton, as Groggy said already, the inclusion of the torture sequence would only ruin the surprise of Villega's betrayal.

And if the desert scene were left standing in the picture it would clear up the glaring continuity error of Mallory's chapped lips and dehydration during the church seen as well as clear up his motivation wanting to kill Juan's family (revenge).

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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2008, 08:49:49 PM »

Dave, I have never understood the motivation for Sean suddenly joining the revolution.
Can you enlighten me?
I've covered this elsewhere, but I can't recall where exactly. Anyway . . . with Aschenbach gone, Mallory is left high and dry without a source of income. He now needs two things: someone to bankroll him, and a means of getting even with Juan. The Revolution supplies him with opportunities for both. Because Mallory has the right pedigree AND has been credited with the Aschenbach kill (that's why the newspaper article is necessary), the revolutionaries are only too happy to employ him. And with a bit of fooling around, Mallory makes sure that Juan becomes a "grand, glorious hero of the revolution" which keeps him from getting what he's after. This is the royal screwing Mallory refers to, although things get out of hand as everyone is OBE'd and Juan's kids get killed. Then momentum takes over, but eventually everything else drops away until the only motivations that remain are revenge and friendship.

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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2008, 09:16:51 PM »

I've covered this elsewhere, but I can't recall where exactly. Anyway . . . with Aschenbach gone, Mallory is left high and dry without a source of income. He now needs two things: someone to bankroll him, and a means of getting even with Juan. The Revolution supplies him with opportunities for both. Because Mallory has the right pedigree AND has been credited with the Aschenbach kill (that's why the newspaper article is necessary), the revolutionaries are only too happy to employ him. And with a bit of fooling around, Mallory makes sure that Juan becomes a "grand, glorious hero of the revolution" which keeps him from getting what he's after. This is the royal screwing Mallory refers to, although things get out of hand as everyone is OBE'd and Juan's kids get killed. Then momentum takes over, but eventually everything else drops away until the only motivations that remain are revenge and friendship.

Thanks

When i first saw the film - the 2:18 version- I always assumed that Sean was in mexico to help the Revolution*. I never 'got' the fact that his testing of dynamite was job related. I think I like that "version" better! LOL!

* i know mSean says "one revolution is enough for me" but I figured he was giving Juan a line (he certainly wouldn't admit it to a stranger)

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