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Author Topic: Chronology of modern archetypes appearing in Westerns  (Read 18126 times)
cigar joe
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« on: July 16, 2008, 10:58:37 PM »

I was watching episodes of the old "Wild Wild West" the other day, most of the episodes if not all are supposed to take place during the Grant administration, the series being basically James Bond in the West makes use of all sorts of gadgets and is very free with anachronisims. That said some episodes are very entertaining reguardless of their ridiculousness.

Anyway for you aspiring Western novel or screenplay authors here is a chronology of some modern archetypes. Add more if you can think of any.

1830's Gaslights, towns with central manufactured gas plants begin to appear and spread to the West. Open flame type (mantles didn't appear until the turn of the century) I've seen pictures of the Leavenworth Kansas in 1867 with a large Gas tank along the Missouri waterfront.

1856 Kerosene Lamps early ones were dead flame type in 1868 the developement of hot blast & cold blast improved the brightness of the flame.

1851 Telegraph long distance lines began appearing after 1851.

1871 Steamcars

1880 Electric power lighting systems began to replace gaslights.

1885 Telephone long distance networks began to spread out from the East and major cities in the US.

1892 Phonographs tin foil cylinder type,  Graphophones wax cylinder type sold for $150, by 1899 for $20 with a small version called the "gem" for $7.50.

1895 The Gramophone record type player, by 1901 mass produced.

1900 internal combustion Gas autos

« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 05:28:22 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 06:22:27 AM »

How about...

Colt Revolver - 1836

Colt .45 Peacemaker - 1873 (hear that, Sergio?)

Repeating rifles - 1860

Machine guns - 1862 (weren't in wide use until several years after the Civil War however)

Pump-action shotguns - 1893

Dynamite - 1867

« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 06:27:42 AM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 07:07:58 AM »

I purposely left out the firearms since we've already gone over it in past posts.  Smiley

Quote
Colt .45 Peacemaker - 1873 (hear that, Sergio?)

Why hear that Sergio?, For A Few Dollars More took place post 1873 or later, A Fistful of Dollars in late 1890's, what's the problem?

« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 08:56:21 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 07:21:41 AM »

I purposely left out the firearms since we've already gone over it in past posts.  Smiley

Why hear that Sergio?, For A Few Dollars More took place in 1873, A Fistful of Dollars in late 1890's, what's the problem?

Whoa, whoa, whoa! When did we determine that?

I was thinking of Clint in GBU. Perhaps I was confused about the metal cartridges?

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cigar joe
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 07:32:33 AM »

Quote
Whoa, whoa, whoa! When did we determine that?


Newspaper that Mortimer looks at in FAFDM is 1873.

and

"In 1856 Smith & Wesson formed their second partnership to produce a small revolver designed to fire the Rimfire cartridge they patented in August of 1854. This revolver was the first successful fully self-contained cartridge revolver available in the world. Smith & Wesson secured patents for the revolver to prevent other manufacturers from producing a cartridge revolver - giving the young company a very lucrative business."

" the first Henry rifles were in the hands of Union soldiers by mid 1862. Due to its revolutionary design and rapid rate of fire, the Henry quickly found popularity both with the military and civilian purchasers. Early sales were especially brisk in Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri and Indiana.
With its reliable .44 caliber rimfire metallic cartridge, the Henry produced a rapid and highly accurate fire."

Illeagal Colt conversions were made using rimfire cartridges from either Henry or Smith & Wesson, we covered the various conversions in a thread called "Blondie's Gun" in GBU section.




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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 07:36:42 AM »

Newspaper that Mortimer looks at in FAFDM is 1873.

Not really evidence of anything, except that the event Mortimer's looking at took place then. It could be anytime within a few years of that date.

I will concede to you the gun point.

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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 07:42:05 AM »

Well all it has to say is 1873 right,  if it said 1872 there wouldn't be any Peacemakers, but the article Mortimer reads about is the White Rocks shooting I believe so it could be at the latest 1874.

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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 07:47:12 AM »

True, but it's an archive of old newspaper articles, isn't it?

I don't think, if the article was written in 1873, that the movie could take place before that date. Cheesy

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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 07:56:31 AM »


Quote
I don't think, if the article was written in 1873, that the movie could take place before that date.


Agreed that's what I'm saying, but now that we brought that up............ he's looking at archived articles in a binder as you say,  now we need screen caps of that to see where in the binder he's looking if its in the middle its a while ago, if hes at the end of the binder then its more recent, we may have a time jump here in FAFDM

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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »

I purposely left out the firearms since we've already gone over it in past posts.  Smiley

Why hear that Sergio?, For A Few Dollars More took place in 1873, A Fistful of Dollars in late 1890's, what's the problem?

What about OUATITW, which is full of peacemakers ? i've read somewhere that the movie is supposed to take place in the early 1870's, if not sooner (i suppose the guy based his conclusions on the railroad history... but he (and I) could be wrong)? THe guy also added that peacemakers were not widly used before 1976. THe point is, in OUATITW, they are widly used.

Great topic, by the way, Cigar!

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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 10:48:33 AM »

I don't think its supposed to be the first Transcontinental RR but based on the other transcontinentals the Southern Pacific & the Santa Fe RR's in fact the Santa Fe was originally concieved as the Atlantic & Pacific RR (coincidently Morton's RR is the Atlantic & Pacific)

See below the route map with the A&P name




and here for the link to the full map on the topic page:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4166.0



My guess is that OUTITW is in the  mid to late 1880's so Colt Peacemakers would definitely be around.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 10:50:50 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 11:18:26 AM »

Ehe, great work CJ, as usual.

BTW, the mid to late 1880's seems to be the perfect period for the themes of the movie (short befor the frontiere was closed).

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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 04:46:49 PM »

I don't think its supposed to be the first Transcontinental RR but based on the other transcontinentals the Southern Pacific & the Santa Fe RR's in fact the Santa Fe was originally concieved as the Atlantic & Pacific RR (coincidently Morton's RR is the Atlantic & Pacific)

See below the route map with the A&P name




and here for the link to the full map on the topic page:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4166.0

My guess is that OUTITW is in the  mid to late 1880's so Colt Peacemakers would definitely be around.
But Morton's RR is a single-owner operated concern, with a really strange (and impractical) scheme: build all new track (no tie-ins with existing RRs), from one direction only, east to west. As nothing like this ever happened, what we are dealing with is alt history, a form of science fiction. 1880-something might be a good date to settle on, but 1980 or 2080 might be equally plausible. Cheesy

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cigar joe
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2008, 06:02:42 PM »

Actually I believe  the Southern Pacific was built in one direction West to East, but yes there was no singal owner operated Transcontinental RR.

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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2008, 09:03:43 PM »

Updates

1812 tinplate canned goods began to be manufactured, in the West in the 1800's were refferd to as "airtights".

1830's Gaslights, towns with central manufactured gas plants begin to appear and spread to the West. Open flame type (mantles didn't appear until the turn of the century) I've seen pictures of the Leavenworth Kansas in 1867 with a large Gas tank along the Missouri waterfront.

1836 in the United States, Alonzo D. Phillips of Springfield, Massachusetts, obtained a patent for "manufacturing of friction matches" and called them locofocos. The danger problem was not resolved until the invention of amorphous (red) phosphorus in 1845. Carl Lundstrom of Sweden introduced the first red phosphorus "safety" matches in 1855. Joshua Pusey invented book matches in 1889.  He was a well-known lawyer in Pennsylvania before the turn of the century. He smoked cigars. 

1856 Kerosene Lamps early ones were dead flame type in 1868 the developement of hot blast & cold blast improved the brightness of the flame.

1851 Telegraph long distance lines began appering after 1851.

1871 Steamcars

1880 Electric power lighting systems began to replace gaslights.

1885 Telephone long distance networks began to spread out from the East and major cities in the US.

1892 Phonographs tin foil cylinder type,  Graphophones wax cylinder type sold for $150, by 1899 for $20 with a small version called the "gem" for $7.50.

1895 The Gramophone record type player, by 1901 mass produced.

1900 internal combustion Gas autos

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