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: Cinema Detective Question - El Paso Archived Newspaper Binder  ( 18111 )
Groggy
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This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #15 : July 21, 2008, 05:47:09 AM »

Good research Joe, although there are many examples other than Hoke you could have cited. On the Union side, Galusha Pennypacker, George Custer and Elon Farnsworth all became generals around the age of 20.



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It's perfect timing, large one...


« #16 : July 21, 2008, 09:13:12 AM »

(how long would the fashion take to get to America?).

I saw a 5 years gap between fashion plates in France and their American counterparts on a web site. However, that might not have been the case with most of them. Moreover, this wasn't a fashion distributed by fashion plates, right? Just something some people made and liked. So it's hard to guess on that. It would be better to get a proof in form of a photograph or something.
But it's good to bear in mind that with internet and everything even today it often takes the fashion one season to arrive - to be really worn by people - at rather distant places like the Czech Republic, and that's in Europe.

Dusters were around already in the Civil War, as the photo of Matthew Brady, which Peacemaker found, proves:
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5079.msg67224#msg67224

Unfortunately, the clever (Czech) book about fashion history in 1860s-1900's I've always wanted so much was in production for a long, long time. It finally came out without me noticing it and I don't have it yet. I think I'll want it as a birthday present, but that means no clever book until December...

But I'll try to look more into it anyway. Not now, though, I'm leaving tomorrow and coming back on Thursday.


BTW, could you explain to me how did you arrive at this date? I think I missed a link somewhere...
post 1884 for the shootout at Agua Caliente.



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« #17 : July 21, 2008, 02:11:02 PM »

El Indio's gun, when Groggy tosses back El Indio's gun to him at the end of For A Few Dollars More in a close up we see it has  black "gutta percha" (hard rubber) grips instead of walnut grips The Colt Catalog shows revolvers with gutta percha grips in 1884.


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« #18 : July 21, 2008, 11:58:44 PM »

I see, thanks for explaining it to me again. :)



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« #19 : July 22, 2008, 07:38:52 PM »

Brigadier General Robert F. Hoke CSA, a native of Lincolnton, NC

Hey! That's essentially where I'm from!

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« #20 : July 23, 2008, 05:02:13 PM »

We'll try not to hold that against you. ::)



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« #21 : July 29, 2008, 01:50:39 PM »

Okay, next question: if FAFDM is actually set in the 1890s, does it occur before or after AFOD?



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« #22 : July 29, 2008, 06:27:14 PM »

There are two poles effecting the setting of the film. One pole is Mortimer's background, is he a real Colonel from the Civil war era or just a "honorary plantation colonel" , if we decide he's the former that would put the action closer to the 1885-1890 time frame.

The other pole is the CRI&P RR through the Tucumcari Creek-Butte (Tucumcari siding & the susbsequent removal of the town of Liberty to that siding) area circa 1895-1900.  Actual town was incorporated in 1901.

« : July 29, 2008, 07:49:41 PM cigar joe »

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« #23 : July 29, 2008, 07:32:45 PM »

And the "window" for AFOD?



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« #24 : July 29, 2008, 08:23:25 PM »

AFOD is probably (just guessing from the lack of budget available to Leone) the loosest in accuracy.

AFOD is braketed by the latest the US Cavalry still wore the blue kersey tunics and medium blue wool trousers they did up to the Spanish American War 1898, they were just developing the Model 1898 Khaki uniform in June of 1898.. The earliest date a fully automatic machine gun (just prop in the film) would have been available , and the  first use of Khaki Uniforms by the Mexican Army (which I haven't found a concrete date for yet).

« : July 30, 2008, 03:26:39 AM cigar joe »

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« #25 : October 28, 2009, 08:29:17 PM »

Hey, look at the editor's name of the newspaper: Albert Grimalt (Alberto Grimaldi)?

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« #26 : October 29, 2009, 05:59:40 AM »

Very probably.




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« #27 : February 04, 2011, 04:17:15 AM »

Generally, it's hard to definitively "prove" anything about dates: there are some anachronisms with weapons in the Dollars trilogy, and as cigarjoe mentioned above, Tucumcari first became a town in 1901.
 If I had to guess, I don't think Leone was too concerned about dates/timelines. After all, he was making "fairy tales for grownups"  ;)


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« #28 : February 08, 2011, 03:03:23 AM »

On the other hand, with each subsequent film he was probably more concerned with them than it might seem at first.



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« #29 : February 08, 2011, 05:26:00 AM »

Tucumcari first became a town in 1901.

"officially" that is, lol, it was a local geographical place name like I mentioned, and the RR siding was named that, for all we know the town of Liberty may have been unofficially referred to as Tucumcari, just like the official town of Franklin, Texas was referred to as El Paso.

Another point that I discovered reading New Mexico History is the whole length of the valley of the Rio Grand River was referred to as Val Verde. The Battle of Val Verde Ford took place at the Val Verde "ford" that was at the North end of the Jornada Del Muerta dessert, there were a lot of Val Verde fords along the length of the Rio Grand.

« : February 08, 2011, 05:43:22 AM cigar joe »

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
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