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| | |-+  shooter and shootee in same frame.....?
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: shooter and shootee in same frame.....?  ( 20749 )
archangel
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« : July 22, 2008, 02:48:15 AM »

another myth.
seen this in a number of pre 1960s HW westerns.

prime eg:
High Noon: Gary Cooper shoots the main villain(Miller) twice after Grace (perfect pussy) Kelly scratches his face.

same frame, no cross cut.


archie.

cigar joe
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« #1 : July 22, 2008, 04:25:50 AM »

I don't know where that came from either, it may have been more a 1950's  television convention at the time, it sure is a topic that needs a bit more investigation.


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archangel
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« #2 : July 22, 2008, 05:18:08 AM »

hi cj,
also saw a number of examples in a B Wesern, circa early 1950s.
don't know the name, but it starred Ward Bond, Ben Johnson and one of the baddies was James Arness.
in the end shootout, there are a number of the shooter-shootee shots.
archie.

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« #3 : July 22, 2008, 05:28:24 AM »

I'm pretty sure it happens with Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster in Vera Cruz too. I haven't the foggiest idea of where this claim comes from, it's pretty absurd on the face of it.



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dave jenkins
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« #4 : July 22, 2008, 05:34:51 AM »

It comes from film industry people who don't actually watch films . . .



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« #5 : July 22, 2008, 05:37:00 AM »

It comes from film industry people who don't actually watch films . . .

Was it Frayling? I believe he advances this claim in STDWD.



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archangel
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« #6 : July 22, 2008, 06:13:59 AM »

hi,
first time i heard was when Clint Eastwood pointed it out in an interview somewhere.

seems to me that a more likely reason that it wasn't done often, especially in TV shows, is that it would be cheaper to intercut.
the setup for such a shot would be more elaborate requiring more rehearsal and all the actors to be present.
archie

archangel
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« #7 : July 22, 2008, 06:39:58 AM »

43 secs into part 2 of Film 4's Once Upon A Time Sergio Leone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GezNwumK1w

According to Frayling, a convention going back to the Hays code.  There has to be a cut between weapon and effect.


yeah, well.......
they got it wrong, didn't they.
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« #8 : July 22, 2008, 06:40:32 AM »

hi,
first time i heard was when Clint Eastwood pointed it out in an interview somewhere.

seems to me that a more likely reason that it wasn't done often, especially in TV shows, is that it would be cheaper to intercut.
the setup for such a shot would be more elaborate requiring more rehearsal and all the actors to be present.
archie

Good point. Perhaps it wasn't commonplace, but it did happen, with a reasonable degree of frequency.



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« #9 : July 22, 2008, 07:10:20 AM »

Come to think of it, I think there's quite a bit of it in Ride the High Country too...



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« #10 : July 22, 2008, 09:03:46 PM »

Quote
Grace (perfect pussy) Kelly

  Most unnecessary addition to a sentence ever....but it made me chuckle.  Sounds like a rrpower post. ;D



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« #11 : July 23, 2008, 05:05:14 AM »

Frayling's heart is in the right place.  He's collected a lot of information and seems to be a fan of Leone but sometimes, when trying to praise Leone or show Leone's uniqueness, he produces somewhat dubious examples.  He's still my No. 1 choice for the commentary on the OUATIA Blu-ray DVD.

I think that's a fair assessment. O0



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cigar joe
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« #12 : July 23, 2008, 05:25:36 AM »

It would be nice to interview him to see what he actually ment.


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« #13 : August 07, 2008, 08:28:43 AM »

It would be nice to interview him to see what he actually ment.
If I remember correct, Juan Miranda has his e-mail...


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« #14 : August 11, 2008, 07:31:58 AM »

I always thought that was Leone who told that... (which would not be surprizing)



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