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Author Topic: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  (Read 1768518 times)
The Firecracker
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« Reply #6060 on: May 14, 2009, 07:21:00 PM »

Evidently FC has never heard of genres. Well, a one-size-fits-all film crit approach does have the virtue of simplicity.


I think R.P. McMurphy can count as an anti-hero, no?

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« Reply #6061 on: May 14, 2009, 09:03:53 PM »

Whenever I don't like movies I just label them as 'pretentious' when I want to sound smart but have nothing else to think of. I more so like to do that when there's nothing in the movie the least bit pretentious.

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« Reply #6062 on: May 14, 2009, 09:05:46 PM »

Cape Fear (1962) - 1/10
This movie is really PRETENTIOUS. Sam Bowden wasn't even a good guy, he wanted to kill someone! And what was so wrong with Max Cady? All he wanted to do is get revenge because Sam hurt his feelings. What's wrong with that? What a PRETENTIOUS movie. eck!

i'm going to go back to studying the symbolistic ambitions of mr. David Lean as i watch Lawrence of Arabia for the 7th time today.

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« Reply #6063 on: May 14, 2009, 09:59:01 PM »

I never thought OFOTCN was a full-blown masterpiece, but it is without any doubt a great study of human psychology, and furthermore institutions... and many more things. It's too bad it sometimes turns unsubtle in order to deliver the message(s), but I guess it had to be that way in the time it was made. I've never read the book but I doubt it can be that superior.

The character of McMurphy is, IMO, not heroic nor anti-heroic. He's merely someone who saw the opportunity to try to change something working in his own way, and make a benefit for himself in the process. As seen in the first episode he does it for his own amusement. He has psychological problems, whether they're more or less serious I couldn't tell, I'm no expert, but he has them, be sure about it. The beauty of his character is that you really can't tell for sure. You know what I mean, he's the guy in your street that is something of a town's fool, but everybody likes in some way, that you don't know if he's really 100% crazy, or merely crazy with episodes from time to time, or drunk, or just pretending all because of his strange sense of humor. You must have met him at some point of your life. I can't recall seeing a so trusty representation of this kind of person in any movie I've seen.

Nurse Wretched-Ratched is probably the most disgusting, venomous, malicious and mean loser seen holding a higher hierarchy position in the history of cinema. How she manipulates and feeds on the misery of those poor patents, thus subjugating them to the system that needs them to survive, but really more to relieve herself from the pain of her subliminal complexe(s), is ingenious as it is nefarious. The worst part of her character is the fact that she doesn't even have the dignity to do it openly, but hiding behind her silver badge. What a pathetic fungus.


7. 5 / 10

« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 10:01:09 PM by Dust Devil » Logged



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« Reply #6064 on: May 14, 2009, 10:05:46 PM »

This thread ate so many good discussions that should have been in proper substantive topics...

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« Reply #6065 on: May 15, 2009, 02:29:28 AM »

Cape Fear (1962) - 1/10
This movie is really PRETENTIOUS. Sam Bowden wasn't even a good guy, he wanted to kill someone! And what was so wrong with Max Cady? All he wanted to do is get revenge because Sam hurt his feelings. What's wrong with that? What a PRETENTIOUS movie. eck!

i'm going to go back to studying the symbolistic ambitions of mr. David Lean as i watch Lawrence of Arabia for the 7th time today.

...and the winner is--Mr. Power!

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« Reply #6066 on: May 15, 2009, 06:44:41 AM »

I think R.P. McMurphy can count as an anti-hero, no?

See, I think the movie tries to make the case that McMurphy is a guy we should be rooting for. I found him a disgusting miscreant and couldn't find a single reason to throw him my sympathy or even interest. I don't see his brand of self-indulgent anarchy as being any better for the patients than Ratched's strict authoritariansim. On the other hand, Leone makes no pretensions of the MWNN being a heroic character (although he does have some virtuous motivations at times in the trilogy), so I don't see the comparison as valid. And as Jenkins implies, there's the difference between the hero of a social problem film/allegory and a Western.

I see what Tuco is saying but by no means does that mean that I should like or even be interested in McMurphy. I'd probably punch his lights out if I met him in real life. If the characer is supposed to be scum like the Cape Fear protagonists or to a lesser extent MWNN, it's not really a problem. Certainly those characters aren't as obnoxious as McMurphy. Whether that's Kesey or Foreman or Nicholson's fault is open to question, but either way.

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« Reply #6067 on: May 15, 2009, 08:02:57 AM »

I wrote this before reading Groggy's response, so we overlap a bit.

I think R.P. McMurphy can count as an anti-hero, no?
Sure, but there are anti-heroes and there are anti-heroes. When Joe in FOD goes forth it is into a chaos world of lawlessness. And he gives the Rojos and Baxters a strong dose of what they've been giving everybody else. Their passing will make things better, or at least will bring the possibility of a better future. It is not likely that Joe is too concerned about the future of the town (provided we discount the apocryphal ABC prologue), but, nonetheless, his actions will facilitate a transition to an improved society.

Nothing could be more different than the case of R.P. McMurphy. A career criminal, McMurphy has spent his life defying society. No doubt we are intended to view that society as corrupt, but the very fact that places like the institution into which he is placed exist belie the notion. Here is a society that is trying to care for its weaker members. You can argue that the method of caring is not helpful, but what is the alternative? In fact, since the time period of the movie, our philosophy of institutionalized care has changed dramatically. Now, the idea is to institutionalize mental patients as infrequently as possible. The result? Record homelessness. Is one situation to be preferred over the other? The debate continues.

It is not a concern of McMurphy's, of course. He rebels for the sake of rebelling, and is willing to let the chips fall where they may. How nice for him. What about the rest? As Groggy points out, he doesn't exactly do anyone at the institution any favors by enlisting them in his--self-serving--cause. The exception may be the Will Sampson character. The Indian may be the one person who shouldn't be in the place, and through McMurphy's example, finally finds the will to leave. And that may be enough for some viewers of the film.

But the questions Groggy has raised remain. Why should we sympathize with McMurphy (simply because Nicholson's performance entertains us?). Why should we denigrate Nurse Ratched and the institution she represents (what is the real-world alternative?). Should we blame the fates of the other patients on the institution, or does McMurphy himself bear some or all of that blame? The film asks us to think in these terms by the very way it was made: the location shooting was done at a real (or former) facility; the doctors we see in the picture are real doctors, not actors. So our response to this film must be very different to the way we respond to a genre film.


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« Reply #6068 on: May 15, 2009, 08:07:16 AM »

This thread ate so many good discussions that should have been in proper substantive topics...
Let me introduce you to a radical new concept then: it's called "Cut and Paste."

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« Reply #6069 on: May 15, 2009, 08:29:35 AM »

Nice post, Jinkies. I can't say I disagree with any of what you say. Afro

I think the worst thing that Ratched can be accused of is perpetuating a bad system. The only two actions she does in the film that I see as remotely evil, or showing some degree of calculation, are the scene where she refuses to allow the inmates watch the World Series and when she argues against McMurphy's release; otherwise she seems to be a nurse trained in a certain school of psychology and advancing from its principles. Her grudge against McMurphy, while very wrong under the circumstances and considering her position, is understandable, especially considering that McMurphy is a selfish hellion raising hell for its own sake. (I strongly reject the idea that he somehow learns to act altruistically to help the other patients; I see it as him being pissed off that he's committed and can't leave and takes out his rage on Ratched and her cronies.) At worst, Ratched is a martinet who finds herself confronted with a very obvious challenge to her authority and can't handle the situation properly; I strongly disagree with the idea that she's being consciously evil or is (as someone on IMDB described her) a "power-hungry narcissist". And I still fail to see Murphy's alternative as being preferable. The movie stacks the deck to support this argument (to be fair, no moreso than most other social problem films do), but in real-life I doubt too many people would agree that McMurphy's "solution" is any better than what Ratched is doling out. By trying to make the asylum a metaphor for all of society, the message becomes even more garbled and troublesome.

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« Reply #6070 on: May 15, 2009, 08:44:12 AM »

Quote
Now, the idea is to institutionalize mental patients as infrequently as possible. The result? Record homelessness.


No one knows this better than me. Come hang out on the University of Pittsburgh campus some time and just see how many homeless people, a great many of them mentally defective, are wandering around the campus without supervision or control of any kind, and ask whether their current situation is any better than Ratched's system.

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« Reply #6071 on: May 15, 2009, 09:05:19 AM »

Let me introduce you to a radical new concept then: it's called "Cut and Paste."

I've transferred all the posts concerning OFOTCN in a new thread. Figured it would be a shame to lose it all in the dark depths of several hundred pages of RTLMYS.

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« Reply #6072 on: May 15, 2009, 09:50:23 AM »

 Afro

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« Reply #6073 on: May 15, 2009, 12:45:59 PM »

Innocence (2004) - 4/10

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« Reply #6074 on: May 15, 2009, 02:27:46 PM »

Innocence (2004) - 4/10
Can you give us more on this?

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