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T.H.
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« Reply #6405 on: July 13, 2009, 02:18:05 PM »

Yes, my comment is clearly meant as a slam on the entire SW subgenre rather than run-of-the-mill mass-produced crap Spaghettis.

I haven't seen all that many as most of the board's denizens are well-aware. I'd rather not get drawn into this argument again if you don't mind, least of all on an apparent misreading of my words.

I didn't misinterpet anything:

if it weren't for Clint, Ennio and some cool shootouts it would be just another cheapjack Spaghetti Western.

So minus the score, the lead actor and a few shootouts, there is nothing of merit in AFOD and this should be compared to the very worst of what the subgenre had to offer? Are you serious?

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« Reply #6406 on: July 13, 2009, 02:20:53 PM »

It should be compared with the mediocrities the genre has to offer.

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T.H.
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« Reply #6407 on: July 13, 2009, 02:27:56 PM »

Your vendetta against this movie is ridiculous. Discounting the day for night sequences, AFOD is very impressive from a technical standpoint. There really wasn't anything that resembled this style that came before it.

You're criticisms of AFOD are completely irrational. From an objective standpoint, this is a landmark action/low budget western and spawned an entire subgenre. It deserves its just due.

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Colonel GŁnther Ruiz
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« Reply #6408 on: July 13, 2009, 02:31:12 PM »

Just curious, but how would you rate FOD viz a viz Yojimbo?

Its been five or six years since I watched Yojimbo (I rented it along with Fistful to compare them).  I remember liking them both about equally (giving the edge to Fistful since I am a Leone fan) and I recall being fascinated by how different the Japanese and Italian/European sensibilities can approach the same story.  Yojimbo was the first Kurosawa I had seen.  Since then I've also watched Seven Samurai, Kagemusha, and Ran.  But I would have to watch Yojimbo again to be fair.

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« Reply #6409 on: July 13, 2009, 02:31:49 PM »

Hardly a vendetta. I note my opinion of it when the topic comes up.

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« Reply #6410 on: July 13, 2009, 02:40:34 PM »

run-of-the-mill mass-produced crap Spaghettis

To say that Fistful is an imperfect film or the least of Leone's westerns is fine but to describe it like this is fightin' words for many people around here.   Evil

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« Reply #6411 on: July 13, 2009, 02:41:53 PM »

I kind of figured, but I assume we're allowed to have differences of opinion. I haven't yet killed Dave, FC and Juan Miranda for disliking Lawrence of Arabia.

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« Reply #6412 on: July 13, 2009, 02:46:46 PM »

I assume we're allowed to have differences of opinion.

Sure, just as long as you agree with us.   Cool

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« Reply #6413 on: July 13, 2009, 02:58:16 PM »

I kind of figured, but I assume we're allowed to have differences of opinion. I haven't yet killed Dave, FC and Juan Miranda for disliking Lawrence of Arabia.
Huh? I don't dislike LoA. Stop putting words into my mouth! Evil

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« Reply #6414 on: July 13, 2009, 03:00:02 PM »

Huh? I don't dislike LoA. Stop putting words into my mouth! Evil


I seem to recall you agreeing with me when I said the only thing worth watching in LOA is the "well scene".


"He was nothing, the well is everything!"

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« Reply #6415 on: July 13, 2009, 03:04:01 PM »

I kind of figured, but I assume we're allowed to have differences of opinion. I haven't yet killed Dave, FC and Juan Miranda for disliking Lawrence of Arabia.

There is a difference between dislike and disrespect. I'm not really crazy about LOA either - I love certain sequences - way too much plot/the tone changes. However, I would never say something like: LOA is no better than your typical bloated run-of-the-mill hollywood epic like Cimarron (a movie I did not make to the finish line).

I have no issue with your dislike of the movie, but you acted as though it made no cinematic impact, which is misguided and just plain wrong.

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« Reply #6416 on: July 13, 2009, 04:08:03 PM »

I don't see the film's influence or place in cinema history being under discussion, nor would I deny it (though I'd also argue that influence is not the same as quality). I don't like it, I said so, what more do you want? I apologize if my tone came across as disrepectful but I just don't think the film is that good.

Every director, however great, is allowed a bad film or two - I've yet to encounter a director I've seen more than a handful of films by that hasn't at least one bad movie on their resume. Hitchcock has Torn Curtain and The Trouble With Harry. Lean has The Sound Barrier. Kubrick has The Killing and Barry Lyndon (I expect that not to be popular either). Spielberg has The Lost World and Amistad. Scorsese has Gangs of New York. Peckinpah has The Osterman Weekend and The Getaway. Hawks has Rio Lobo. Ford has Rio Grande and The Quiet Man. Leone (IMO of course) has COR and FOD. (IMO Leone is almost unique in that a clear ascension of quality can be seen in his first five films - up until OUATITW at least he gets miles better with each passing film.) It is so with the world.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:10:55 PM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #6417 on: July 13, 2009, 04:23:11 PM »

AFOD is a brilliantly directed film, it's objective fact. there isn't one movie that predates it that resembles it in any way. The closest is maybe Fuller's Forty Guns but not close enough.

The Killing is a masterpiece, as is Lyndon, but I understand how that movie can alienate the viewer but to call it a bad film is asinine.

Also, I'm not saying I've seen all the films from each director you listed made, but if you dig deeper into virtually all of their work you'll find far worse movies. Well, besides Lean because my knowledge is well, pretty lean for the most part.

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« Reply #6418 on: July 13, 2009, 04:27:56 PM »

Does every statement need to be preceded by "in my opinion"? Shouldn't it be obvious that my statement is my own view and that I'm not presenting it as an objective fact?

But wait!

Quote
it's objective fact

 Roll Eyes

Even if I agreed with the statement in question (I might agree to well-directed but "brilliantly", no), I would not be so bold as to claim it as a statement of fact. One man's Citizen Kane is another man's Alone in the Dark. I'll also re-iterate that originality or uniqueness doesn't automatically equal quality - otherwise Freddy Got Fingered is a masterpiece. I'm certain an argument could be made for FOD's brilliance (I'm sure I've even read a few pieces to that affect) but noting its originality isn't much of an argument.

I might take you at your word for Scorsese, Ford and Hitchcock (I've seen a lot by the latter two but proportionally-speaking, of course), but I've seen all of Lean's work, most of Spielberg's, two-thirds of Peckinpah's (I haven't seen Killer Elite or Convoy granted) and all but two of Kubrick's. I feel fairly secure in my assesments of those gentlemen.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 04:35:36 PM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #6419 on: July 13, 2009, 05:33:19 PM »

It is fact that AFOD is brilliantly directed, not too many films pioneer a new visual style.

Kubrick made fear and desire, to imply that anything he made after is worse is just wrong, to repeat myself. scorses made boxcar bertha, which has neon PBR signs in a depression era bar. There are many spielberg contenders and although I've seen twenty-plus hitchcocks, though I'm sure I haven't seen his worst. I've only seen parts of Torn Curtain, Topaz and Family Plot, I'd doubt I'd try to watch these in their entirety but those were awful, from the bits I saw. I'm just glad you didn't state Marnie. Then there's his early work, I'm sure there's a stinker or two. Although I can't stand HGWMV, it is in no way Ford's worst movie nor is TQM. He made over 140 movies, I doubt anyone on this board seen his worst work.

Again, I don't have any qualms about your dislike of AFOD but to dismiss its influence is, again, wrong.

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