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Author Topic: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  (Read 1831510 times)
Groggy
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« Reply #9750 on: December 05, 2011, 03:28:22 PM »

Nice to see Mr. W picked up a psychological degree since his last rant. If he were a real psychologist instead of an internet shrink he'd grasp the concept of projection.

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« Reply #9751 on: December 05, 2011, 03:29:17 PM »

I was referring to the content of  groggy's posts, not to the signatures. But since you mention it, anyone who needs to decorate his posts with all those cartoons is demanding too much attention. groggy needs a lot of attention. This website is no longer about Sergio Leone; it's really about Groggy, and what he thinks about everybody and everything. This is groggy's website. He's the bully on the block. His exploitation of the website certainly makes a fool out of the website owner. The owner might as well remove the photo of Sergio Leone from upper left and replace it with groggy's cartoon and "name."

There are what, seven or eight active people here, and you all defer to groggy this infantile hipster as if he were Sergio Leone himself.

If Sergio Leone were here, he'd shoot groggy on sight.


Richard
Grin I beg to differ.

I saw Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut recently (on 35mm, good but not spectacular prints) and my ratings of both of them raised to near 10/10. Especially EWS, which I had seen last time when I was like fourteen.

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« Reply #9752 on: December 05, 2011, 03:30:04 PM »

also, in the final shootout, too many of the Bunch live long after they should. for example, at one point we see Oates laughing as he sprays lead from the machine gun, even as we see three bullet holes in his back. Only after he gets hit a few more times does he finally die. After being shot in the back 3 times in the back, he'd either be dead, or perhaps down on the ground writhing in pain and dying. No way could he be laughing and firing the machine gun... every Mexican gets one shot and dead, but none of the Bunch die till they get shot up like Bonnie and Clyde? and Peckinpah was supposed to be the one who put realism in violence? I appreciate that he showed that being shot is a bloody death, but i have serious problems with his depictions as well. also, i did not like the editing of some of the opening shootout. too often, he switched perspectives back and forth so quickly, that you couldn't appreciate any of the shots. like when someone falls off a horse, he switches from side view to victim's pov back to side view back to victim's pov so quickly, i didn't like it.... ultimately, imo it is a very good movie, but not the greatest of all time. i rate it in the 8 -- 8.5 range

Again you're advancing from the premise that the film is trying, in some way, to be super-realistic. The issue is style not versimilitude.

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« Reply #9753 on: December 05, 2011, 03:31:39 PM »

Grin I beg to differ.

I saw Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide Shut recently (on 35mm, good but not spectacular prints) and my ratings of both of them raised to near 10/10. Especially EWS, which I had seen last time when I was like fourteen.

That one puzzled me too. Surely my hatred of Zooey Deschanel disqualifies me.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 04:43:48 PM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #9754 on: December 05, 2011, 04:42:46 PM »

Again you're advancing from the premise that the film is trying, in some way, to be super-realistic. The issue is style not versimilitude.

what does that mean? Wasn't Pechinpah trying to show the realities of what happens when someone gets shot, as opposed to the bloodless deaths in most prior Westerns?

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« Reply #9755 on: December 05, 2011, 07:24:53 PM »

what does that mean? Wasn't Pechinpah trying to show the realities of what happens when someone gets shot, as opposed to the bloodless deaths in most prior Westerns?
I dunno. Where's Mike Siegel when you need him?

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« Reply #9756 on: December 05, 2011, 09:39:25 PM »

btw dj, I ordered that Cinema Retro Dollars special issue. Looks nice, though I have seen 4 mistakes in the first 4 pages (some on aspects of the movies' plots, some  on facts  that conflict with Frayling's works)  Smiley

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« Reply #9757 on: December 06, 2011, 02:39:13 AM »

what does that mean? Wasn't Pechinpah trying to show the realities of what happens when someone gets shot, as opposed to the bloodless deaths in most prior Westerns?

Not really. If you only look at TWB from a realisic point of view you will never enjoy it.
Yes, Peckinpah obviously wanted to show that bullets slam mostly through a body, and that being shot is a bloody thing (which rarely was shown before because of censorship reasons up to the end-sixties, but was done in older films here and there long before). But at the same moment TWB is obviously not a completely realistic film.
You mentioned that the dying of the Bunch at the end is absolutely overdone, and of course it is. That's the whole point about the ending and its tremendous impact. But you have to understand what TWB is about to appreciate the ending, to appreciate the complete film. Or to put is different, if you understand TWB the way you do, and it is absolutely ok to understand TWB that way (or another), it is absolutely consequent that you can't enjoy TWB the way I (and many others) enjoy it. But still that's ok. I also cannot appreciate every film other people adore, and that's mostly also because I understand that certain film not like these others do.

The Wild Bunch is mainly about the inner world of Pike Bishop (and about Peckinpah himself). About his moral code, and about all his failings and the inner bitterness resulting of his self betrayal. And it is a film about dying, not about killing like most of the other films which use slo mo for action scenes (e.g. John Woo).
Pike's decision in the brothel at the end to stand to Angel (and please remember only a few hours before he left an old comrade behind) is the result of everything what happened before in TWB. In this brothel sequence all the unconnected things which were shown before, all the unsettled conflicts in Pike's gang, all of Pike's inner conflicts, so many things which up to this point seemed not to belong together, all these things begin to flow together in a magnificent way, which then leads to Pike becoming a human being again, which inevitably leads to the the final battle, leads to his death.
In the end it is the walk scene, which connects the brothel and the massacre in a hyperbolical way ( a direct artistical description of  Pike's inner peace), and then the endless dying of him and his gang which turns TWB into a masterpiece. But it only works in the uncut version. Cut the flashbacks or other scenes out and the ending begins to lose some of its impact.

But even without the context the ending (and the beginning), which means on a pure technical level, is a masterly filmed and edited piece of cinematic craftsmanship. And if you cannot even enjoy these scenes on their mere technical level, you wiil have prnblems to enjoy the film in its completeness.

But again, you must not enjoy TWB for whatever reasons. What counts is that there are other films you can enjoy the way I enjoy TWB. And some of these films you admire I may not be able to understand.

(Sorry, my English is not the best in the world, and I should write it in German, my native language, in which it would be much easier to describe how TWB works for me. And describing this is not an easy thing because TWB is a pretty complex film)

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« Reply #9758 on: December 06, 2011, 05:00:41 AM »

what does that mean? Wasn't Pechinpah trying to show the realities of what happens when someone gets shot, as opposed to the bloodless deaths in most prior Westerns?

If he were I don't think he'd bother with the slow-motion and rapid intercutting.

I don't think I can add much to Stanton's post. TWB's real richness isn't in the (excellent) action scenes but the closely-observed characters.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 09:59:17 AM by Groggy » Logged


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« Reply #9759 on: December 06, 2011, 05:41:38 AM »

The Man With The Golden Arm (1955) Dir Otto Preminger It stars Frank Sinatra, Eleanor Parker, Kim Novak, Arnold Stang and Darren McGavin, and was based on the novel of the same name by Nelson Algren. The story is of a card dealing/drummer/heroin addict (Sinatra) who gets clean while in prison, but struggles to stay that way in the outside world when he returns to the old neighborhood. I guess the film was controversial for its time because the MPAA refused to certify the film not because it showed drug addiction but because it portrayed heroin in a sympathetic way rejecting  the standard "dope fiend" approach of the time.

It was a pretty good film but hampered in my opinion by being all studio set bound giving the film an on-the-cheap backlot look. It also has the "Stanley Kramer" hit you over the head message film feel to it though it was produced by Preminger.

Performances are good also, Sinatra, and a great weaselly turn by McGavin as the pencil thin mustachioed pusher. Novak is Ok nothing special the rest of the cast is adequate. 7/10



It was nominated for three Academy Awards: Sinatra for Best Actor in a Leading Role, Joseph C. Wright and Darrell Silvera for Best Art Direction-Set Decoration, Black-and-White and Elmer Bernstein for Best Music, Scoring of a Dramatic or Comedy Picture. Sinatra was also nominated for best actor awards by the BAFTAs and The New York Film Critics.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 04:17:25 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #9760 on: December 06, 2011, 05:56:36 AM »

The Moon Is Blue (1953) Dir Otto Preminger, starring William Holden, David Niven, (Audrey Hepburn channeling) Maggie McNamara and Dawn Addams. A frank, sex farce comedy before there really were any, (released with out MPAA code), that was "based on an Otto Preminger directed 1951 Broadway production of F. Hugh Herbert's play with Barbara Bel Geddes, Donald Cook, and Barry Nelson in the lead roles. Its successful run of 924 performances prompted him to contract with United Artists to finance and distribute a screen adaptation over which he would have complete control.

On July 13, 1951, the Breen office contacted Herbert and advised him his screenplay was in violation of the Motion Picture Production Code because of its "light and gay treatment of the subject of illicit sex and seduction." On December 26, Preminger submitted a revised draft of the script which, due to numerous lines of dialogue exhibiting "an unacceptably light attitude towards seduction, illicit sex, chastity, and virginity," was rejected on January 2, 1952. Contrary to later legend, the words "virgin," "mistress," and "pregnant," all of which had been in the original play's dialogue, were not singled out as objectionable. On January 6, Preminger and Herbert advised the Breen office they disagreed with its decision and would film the screenplay without further changes.

" * Wikipedia

Caught it on TCM's Preminger Day looked like it still had a cut or two here and there. Good film 7/10

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« Reply #9761 on: December 06, 2011, 08:00:58 AM »

btw dj, I ordered that Cinema Retro Dollars special issue. Looks nice, though I have seen 4 mistakes in the first 4 pages (some on aspects of the movies' plots, some  on facts  that conflict with Frayling's works)  Smiley
Let's talk about that, but make a new thread for it.

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« Reply #9762 on: December 06, 2011, 09:59:41 AM »

The Moon Is Blue (1953) Dir Otto Preminger, starring William Holden, David Niven, (Audrey Hepburn channeling) Maggie McNamara and Dawn Addams. A frank, sex farce comedy before there really were any, (released with out MPAA code), that was "based on an Otto Preminger directed 1951 Broadway production of F. Hugh Herbert's play with Barbara Bel Geddes, Donald Cook, and Barry Nelson in the lead roles. Its successful run of 924 performances prompted him to contract with United Artists to finance and distribute a screen adaptation over which he would have complete control.

On July 13, 1951, the Breen office contacted Herbert and advised him his screenplay was in violation of the Motion Picture Production Code because of its "light and gay treatment of the subject of illicit sex and seduction." On December 26, Preminger submitted a revised draft of the script which, due to numerous lines of dialogue exhibiting "an unacceptably light attitude towards seduction, illicit sex, chastity, and virginity," was rejected on January 2, 1952. Contrary to later legend, the words "virgin," "mistress," and "pregnant," all of which had been in the original play's dialogue, were not singled out as objectionable. On January 6, Preminger and Herbert advised the Breen office they disagreed with its decision and would film the screenplay without further changes.

" * Wikipedia

Caught it on TCM's Preminger Day looked like it still had a cut or two here and there. Good film 7/10

That's been on my radar for awhile, thanks. Afro

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« Reply #9763 on: December 06, 2011, 11:30:27 AM »

To be clear again: It's not that I did not enjoy TWB. It's just that I don't bring it to that extreme level of greatness that some of you do. I'd rate it about an 8/10 so it is a  good movie. I just don't think it's among the greatest ever. Perhaps I can't relate to or believe in all the emotions in the movie that some of y'all do...

Anyway, perhaps we should move this to TWB's thread... I'll copy my comments and expand a bit in that thread  Afro

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« Reply #9764 on: December 06, 2011, 01:27:18 PM »

Ansatsu/Assassination/The Assassin (1964) 9/10. Fourth fabulous viewing. Shinoda Masahiro's account of the activities of the mysterious Kiyokawa Hachirô (Tanba Tetsuro) in the months leading up to the Meiji Restoration. Although not born a samurai, the historical Kiyokawa was able to acquire samurai skills and open a renowned fencing school. A political agitator, his sympathies were never entirely clear--was he an agent of the Tokugawa Shogunate, or did his sympathies really lie with the Imperial court? The film never answers the question, but it does provide a lot of great b&w widescreen cinematography of guys in robes and funny hats. Will this film appeal to people ignorant of Japanese history? Probably not. Will it appeal to people who admire the scores of Takemitsu Toru? Boy, howdy!

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