Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 22, 2017, 04:16:28 AM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Other/Miscellaneous
| |-+  Off-Topic Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Rate The Last Movie You Saw
0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 674 675 [676] 677 678 ... 1166 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  (Read 1803862 times)
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8382

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #10125 on: January 27, 2012, 08:44:34 AM »

A good writer always considers his audience and strives for disambiguity at every turn. Readers appreciate all the help they get, and that appreciation often translates into good will toward the writer and his message. In the present case, going out of your way to signal that you were using some words in a special sense would not have gone amiss. One useful technique is caps (as in "The Happy Ending"). I'm giving you this tip for free, I used to bill out at 50 bucks an hour for this sort of thing.

mea culpa for overestimating my audience  Wink

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #10126 on: January 27, 2012, 02:33:45 PM »

The Grey (2012) - 2/10. Man versus Nature . . . and Nature wins. A good premise--plane crash survivors trying to fight off a pack of wolves while trekking to safety--is gradually undermined. Talk, talk, talk,  bad CGI, and the realization that, in the world of the filmmakers, human initiative counts for nothing, are not, in my view, the ingredients of  a successful film. What is the point of imagining such a bleak world, populating it with only the dead, dying, and doomed, and then asking the audience to spend two hours there? Just so we can all leave the cinema thinking, Wow, life sucks, and then you die. Way cool! This film is a cheat.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8010



View Profile
« Reply #10127 on: January 27, 2012, 03:30:03 PM »

A good writer always considers his audience and strives for disambiguity at every turn.

This is a rather ambiguous statement. What sort of writer are you referring to?   

Logged

dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #10128 on: January 27, 2012, 06:38:11 PM »

Before The Devil Knows You're Dead (2007) - 9/10. The Blu-ray of this terrific film can be had for $7.99. Is that amazing or what?

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8010



View Profile
« Reply #10129 on: January 28, 2012, 02:59:59 PM »

Before The Devil Knows You're Dead (2007) - 9/10. The Blu-ray of this terrific film can be had for $7.99. Is that amazing or what?

I go for the "what".  This movie sucks.

Logged

noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5093


Lonesome Billy


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10130 on: January 28, 2012, 03:08:26 PM »

Nope. It rocks.

Logged


New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8382

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #10131 on: January 28, 2012, 04:32:53 PM »

My problem with Before the Devil Knows You're Dead

SPOILER ALERT

is the ending. I felt it kind of falls off the table at the end. It just left me feeling kind of empty, like, "that's it?" The only thing worse than a bad movie is a good movie with a bad ending.
 Until the ending, this movie is really terrific. You totally feel the characters' desperation. Somehow, the dad just killing the son and walking away down the corridor of a hospital with the sun streaming through just wasn't a satisfactory ending for me.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 04:34:24 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #10132 on: January 28, 2012, 04:50:23 PM »

I sympathize. But I think the ending is weak only because the father does something a father would never do. He might kill one of his children to prevent them from harming someone else (that is, in the heat of the moment when action can effect a different outcome). But if the damage is done, I don't buy the idea of a dad taking revenge on one of his own. A hardened criminal, yeah, but not some old jeweler who has been law abiding his whole life. Parents stick by their kids--even when they shouldn't.

But dramatically I think it works. 

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5093


Lonesome Billy


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10133 on: January 28, 2012, 05:06:56 PM »

I think the point is that he kills himself, or, more exactly, he kills what he created. His son is not really seen as a person here but as a part of himself.

Anyway, it worked for me as a real climax. More than psychologically coherent, it really answered the question "what could go worse now in this family??"

Logged


New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8382

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #10134 on: January 28, 2012, 05:16:16 PM »

I sympathize. But I think the ending is weak only because the father does something a father would never do. He might kill one of his children to prevent them from harming someone else (that is, in the heat of the moment when action can effect a different outcome). But if the damage is done, I don't buy the idea of a dad taking revenge on one of his own. A hardened criminal, yeah, but not some old jeweler who has been law abiding his whole life. Parents stick by their kids--even when they shouldn't.

But dramatically I think it works. 

Believability was not an issue for me. I actually found the father's actions consistent with his character. Maybe my opinion will change when I have kids of my own. But this dad absolutely loved his wife, and never got along with Hoffman. If it woulda been Hawke, then he'd probably not have done it. But considering that it was Hoffman, it was absolutely consistent with his character to do that.

The one part I didn't really find believable was Hoffman crying in middle of the movie when he was in the car with his wife after his dad tried apologizing to him. Sure, every child wants to be loved by their father, and not having that could scar him for life. But his dad apologizing to him, and then he's in the car with his wife and he suddenly starts crying like that? A little lame IMO.

What I loved about the movie is how much you feel the characters' DESPERATION, particularly Hawke's.

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #10135 on: January 28, 2012, 06:11:19 PM »

Believability was not an issue for me. I actually found the father's actions consistent with his character. Maybe my opinion will change when I have kids of my own. But this dad absolutely loved his wife, and never got along with Hoffman. If it woulda been Hawke, then he'd probably not have done it. But considering that it was Hoffman, it was absolutely consistent with his character to do that.
Nope. Fathers think they love their children, even when they've shown those children a lifetime of hatred. Self deception is a beautiful thing, and necessary for the perpetuation of the race.

The crying scene was because the father's words have come too late. Hoffman's character has been angry with his dad, and it's the anger that has given him the drive to do what he's done. He'd like to be able to let go of his anger at that point, but he's screwed and can't get out from under. He knows that everything could have been different. But nothing now can be changed.

In the "Making Of" doc that scene is especially singled out by the people involved. Hoffman is great, of course (and my estimation of him as an actor rose considerably on that performance), but as Lumet pointed out, he had two cameras rolling on that scene so that he could get Marisa Tomei's reactions in real time. Lumet seems to have thought that hers was the better performance. If you look at what she does in the scene you'll have to agree that she's pretty impressive. The scene as a whole is, I think, fantastic, maybe the best in the picture.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13684

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #10136 on: January 28, 2012, 06:14:47 PM »

Anyway, it worked for me as a real climax. More than psychologically coherent, it really answered the question "what could go worse now in this family??"
Good point. That's probably why (psychological implausibilities notwithstanding) I felt the ending was satisfying dramatically.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12712


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #10137 on: January 28, 2012, 06:39:26 PM »

Dead Reckoning Bogart & Scott, 7/10

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8382

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #10138 on: January 28, 2012, 08:05:33 PM »

Nope. Fathers think they love their children, even when they've shown those children a lifetime of hatred. Self deception is a beautiful thing, and necessary for the perpetuation of the race.


(Again, maybe my opinion will change once I am God-willing a father of my own children. But) I still think that part works, and here's why: It's true that a parent blindly loves his child and will excuse virtually anything the child does. But in this case, there was someone whom the father loved even more, and that was his wife. I think that point was emphasized particularly; as the father dropped off his wife for work on that fateful day, he said "I love you" to her; this was not the stereotypical "old couple, yapping at each other, etc." but someone who was deeply in love, and absolutely devastated by his wife's death. So in this case, the usual blind love that a parent has for his child, comes into conflict with the exceptional love that he felt for his wife.

Of course, nothing he does can bring his wife back. But still, you have the deep love for his wife and his devastation after her dearth, vs. the love for a child, in this case a child he admittedly wasn't particularly close with, and who actively did something totally senseless and evil. This is not even close, IMO. If the father had done anything other than killing Hoffman, I would have been shocked.

But though IMO that scene worked very well, I just didn't feel like it was a satisfactory ending to the movie. I just felt like ok, so he kills him, walks out of the room, the sunlight shines through, and that's it. The End. Really? That just somehow left me wanting more.

Also once movie ends with the scene of the father killing Hoffman, I don't think the final shot of the father walking down the corridor and sunlight streaming through was appropriate. I mean, the father's life sure ain't sunnier now that Hoffman is dead. Yeah, he avenged his wife's senseless death, but his life is still just as miserable. If anything, a more appropriate shot would have been for the father to leave the room, and have the camera fixate on Hoffman's dead body as the final shot. Or perhaps even better, it could have panned across the city to a shot of Hawke running away or something, like getting on a Greyhound bus and fleeing somewhere ("to the asshole of the world" ? Wink) Hoffman and Hawke are the main characters here: they were in desperate situations and did something desperate and their lives have now become even more desperate. The fate of the two of them mean much more to me than the fate of the father. So eg. in the scene where the father kills Hoffman, I view it as "look at what happened to Hoffman," rather than "the father got his revenge and can now walk away in peace." The father's actions are only relevant in how they affect the main characters. What concerns us is not whether or not the father gets his revenge per se, but the effect on Hoffman/Hawke.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 12:24:48 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10139 on: January 29, 2012, 12:17:29 AM »

The Ides of March - 4/10 - Newsflash: politics is a dirty game and those involved inevitably get soiled by it! The idea that any sentient person needed to be taught this lesson is the first of many, many miscalculations this lousy film makes. It poses as a behind-the-scenes expose of presidential campaigns, but the stilted dialogue, interchangably obnoxious characters and cheapjack melodrama prevent any involvement in the story. Ryan Gosling is stiff as a board, hardly changing facial expressions through the whole film, and Clooney's character is a cipher. Some really good actors (Paul Giamatti, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, Jeffrey Wright, Evan Rachel Wood) flounder about in supporting roles, to no avail. Ultimately it's a boring, completely inert movie that passes off common wisdom as penetrating insight.

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
Pages: 1 ... 674 675 [676] 677 678 ... 1166 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 20 queries.