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Author Topic: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  (Read 1801114 times)
moviesceleton
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« Reply #12360 on: August 05, 2013, 11:35:34 PM »

it's not about responding to "labels."

When you hear someone talking about the cattle-car train to a death camp, if he is a survivor then you pity him; if he is the engineer on the train, or some local fucking Pollak who is laughing as he tells how used to make a throat-slitting motion, then you despise him. I'm not looking for what you call an "interesting" response, as I try to guess the identity of a particular speaker. It's feels really weird when you try to guess and then guess wrong. And yes, the identity of the speaker makes a big difference - because almost every one of the speakers tries to have you pity them. Even the fucking engineer who drove the train the Treblinka tries to have you pity him  poor me, I had to drink vodka just to get through my workday driving cattle cars of people to the gas chambers. Yes, part of watching Shoah is the reaction to the specific speaker, rather than merely taking the words objectively as historical information. There's no way you can feel the same when eg. hearing a camp survivor describe the gas chambers, as when eg. hearing that fucking Nazi describe the gas chambers.
So yes, if Lanzmann is intentionally trying to keep us in suspense about the speakers, I disagree with him very much on that. And I definitely disagree with putting that engineer on the poster of the movie. That's not to say Lanzmann didn't do a great job with the movie.
I haven't seen the film (this discussion has made me interested, though) but I can't but be constantly surprised at how black and white you see the world.

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« Reply #12361 on: August 06, 2013, 07:25:09 AM »

blah blah blah. What about his BASEBALL?

Still haven't seen it.

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« Reply #12362 on: August 06, 2013, 09:49:07 AM »

The Wire: Season 3 - 8/10
Best season I've watched so far. A big step up from the first two seasons, where most of the show's flaws are cleared up. I'm starting to understand the shows praise better. A huge upgrade in characterization, theme, pace, and scope. Excited for Season 4 which seems to generally be hailed as far and away the greatest season.

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« Reply #12363 on: August 06, 2013, 10:24:36 AM »

Is it watchabloe from season 3? I have seen the first 5 or 6 episodes of season 1 a couple years ago.

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« Reply #12364 on: August 06, 2013, 10:42:42 AM »

Is it watchabloe from season 3? I have seen the first 5 or 6 episodes of season 1 a couple years ago.
You might be able to get away with skipping Season 2 (at least read the Wikipedia plot). The first 5 or 6 episodes of Season 1 are definitely slow though - it's right after that where it gets more interesting. I'd recommend watching it if you want to do try S3. 1 and 3 are connected to each other, while 2 is more distant with a few important details here and there. I don't know if S2 events will come more significant in S4 and S5 though.

EDIT: Don't try and compare it to something like Breaking Bad though. BB is not only different but still far better in literally every way (other than realism, which it obviously isn't shooting for). It's tough for me not to try and compare the two, considering (a) I just watched through all of BB and (b) they're both often hailed as 'the two greatest shows' ever. BB's greatness may have spoiled the rest of TV for me. I enjoyed every season of BB even far more than Season 3 of The Wire.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:46:25 AM by PowerRR » Logged
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« Reply #12365 on: August 06, 2013, 11:24:33 AM »

(other than realism, which it obviously isn't shooting for)
That was kind of my problem with the show. It started out like a realistic show, so when it got rather unbelievable by the third or fourth episode I lost my interest. Maybe I could give it another shot now when I know better what to expect.

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« Reply #12366 on: August 06, 2013, 03:51:12 PM »

I haven't seen the film (this discussion has made me interested, though) but I can't but be constantly surprised at how black and white you see the world.

The Holocaust, yes: as black-and-white an event as has ever been in human history. No moral relativism.

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« Reply #12367 on: August 06, 2013, 05:48:00 PM »

Unless you're David Irving or Pat Buchanan, of course.

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« Reply #12368 on: August 06, 2013, 07:06:43 PM »

maybe moviesceleton is Pat Buchanan? The beauty of the anonymity of the Internet. You never know, my real name may be Barack Hussein Obama.

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« Reply #12369 on: August 06, 2013, 09:51:58 PM »

The Holocaust, yes: as black-and-white an event as has ever been in human history. No moral relativism.
As an event, its horrors can't be dismissed - that's not my intention and anybody who can read can see that. What I don't understand, is how totally you refuse the perpetrators any right to be considered just as much a human as you and me. Monstrous acts don't need monsters in order to happen.

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« Reply #12370 on: August 06, 2013, 11:18:34 PM »

Of course the Nazis were human. As were the Ukrainians, the Pollaks, the Lithuanians, and the various other groups of people that perpetrated, participated, laughed, etc. at the Holocaust. I have no idea why you would think I didn't believe they were human. As a figure of speech, we may call them "animals" or "beasts" or savages or whatever, but of course, they were human.(just as human as their Jewish victims were). Otherwise, they wouldn't be responsible for their actions.

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« Reply #12371 on: August 07, 2013, 01:53:36 AM »

RR:
I get what you feel after BB. Same here. I'll try to finish season 1 of the wire after BB new episodes and then jump to season 3 if I'm still in it. I liked the characters a lot.

MS:
Problems with which show? The Wire or Breaking Bad?

D&D:
66% of the people you will ever meet are ready to electrocute you to death just because a doctor asked them. This is the real mechanism at work behind the Shoah. This is also why a new Shoah could still happen tomorrow in our developed countries. Does it make 66% of Humanity black?

(I'd probably answer yes myself)

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« Reply #12372 on: August 07, 2013, 05:33:00 AM »


D&D:
66% of the people you will ever meet are ready to electrocute you to death just because a doctor asked them. This is the real mechanism at work behind the Shoah. This is also why a new Shoah could still happen tomorrow in our developed countries. Does it make 66% of Humanity black?

(I'd probably answer yes myself)

What are you talking about a doctor asking someone to electrocute you to death? Are you talking about the electric chair/death penalty? I really am unsure of what you are trying to say or ask.

RE: the issue of whether another Holocaust could happen today in a developed/enlightened country, the answer is an emphatic Yes. Germany in the 1930's was as advanced/enlightened/cultured a society as existed. I don't believe that being "developed" or "cultured" or "sophisticated" etc. means  a person or nation is any less capable of savagery. And prior to Hitler's rise to power, the Jews in Germany enjoyed every bit of equality/comfort/prestige as they do today in America or any other "developed" country. So yes, I absolutely believe that it is realistically possible for a genocide of any nation, by any nation to happen at any time.

RE: the question of whether 2/3 of humanity is "black" (by which I assume you mean "evil"): Yes, unfortunately, I do believe that most people are capable of terrible savagery. But there are different levels. I think that some people (like Hitler) are burning with a hatred and ready to burst at any time, while other people may not be constantly burning with an intense desire to commit evil acts, but there is evil within them such that when they get into a particular situation (like having a Hitler rile them up), then they commit horrific acts.

So, while I can't put a precise number on it, I do believe that a majority of the world is capable of terrible evil. (There are various things that may restrain them from committing the evil acts, like fear of punishment from government, but) I believe that the percentage of people with deeply held moral convictions that would never permit them to ever harm another or steal from another in any way even if they'd never be caught and there's no chance of  repercussions/punishment - is unfortunately very small.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 07:03:32 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #12373 on: August 07, 2013, 08:53:50 AM »

Presumably he's referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

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« Reply #12374 on: August 07, 2013, 10:06:56 AM »

presumably, he means that I was in attendance at John Stossel's show (on Fox Business Network) called Questioning Authority - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnIIIBJmpEg  presumably, he also meant that  in the beginning, when he speaks into the camera, I am the guy just above Stossel's right shoulder
sometimes, you may presume correct ;-)

Later on in that episode, there was a brief segment about the Milgram experiement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VaU9AYGYbQ

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