Rate The Last Movie You Saw

[drinkanddestroy]

so from what I read in Ebert's review, it seems there are two versions of PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK: the original theatrical version, and a "director's cut" with 7 minutes removed from the movie. seems that the Criterion is the director's cut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_at_Hanging_Rock#Versions

has anyone seen the original? can you tell us anything about those missing 7 minutes?

if Weir wanted those 7 minutes deleted when the movie was first released but the distributor kept it in, then I can understand that if he is able to delete it now, he does. But if he wanted it as is when it was released, and then 20 years later he decides, hey, I don't like these 7 minutes, lemme cut it out now, IMO you could make a good argument that that is bullshit. I mean, if Monet woke up today and decided he wanted the water lillies to be a little smaller, or a different shade, could he walk into a museum and chop it, or change the shade? Once the artwork is released, assuming that is the artwork that the artist wanted at the time, it's bullshit if he decides 20 years later to change it. Imagine Hitchcock trimming the scene with the shrink at the end of Psycho - yeah, it's way too long, but that's the way the movie was made, and that's how it should be presented, warts and all - if fans wanna chop it i fan edits, so be it.
They should at least offer an option to see both versions - or at the very least, offer those 7 minutes as a bonus feature. The fact that they aren't offering it – at least in USA – leads me to believe that perhaps Weir absolutely wants to destroy any memory of it, doesn't want it around at all for anyone to ever see.

[stanton]

If an artist wants to change his work, it is his right to do so. Claude Sautet reworked a greater part of his films. Made them shorter (some considerably) made them longer, just like he wanted them now.

As far as I know the new DC is a reconsideration by Weir, not a try to restore a version which he wasn't able to release in 1975.

My German DVD has all the old scenes as bonus, but in weak quality.

Here they are:

http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=835082

Ideally a DVD or Blu should contain both versions, unless Weir wants the older one not to be seen any more.

[noodles_leone]

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SPOILER ALERT

Also, Weir says that when he went to meet Joan Lindsey, the author, one question he was told not to ask her was whether the story was true. he asked anyway, and she said he should never ask again. So he never got an answer. Weir says that after the film was released, journalists did investigations into historical records, and could find no record of such an event. However, Weir says he believes that Lindsey did base the event some event that did happen and profoundly affect her. It was not exactly as in the book – and that's presumably why journalists found no record of it – but he believes that there was some sort of event where girls went missing on a school picnic that profoundly affected Lindsay.

I never read the book, but – assuming the movie closely follows the book – I assume it is a true story because it's kinda weird how one girl, Irma, is found, but no trace is ever found of the others. If it was pure fiction, you would assume that there would be a solution to the mystery; barring that, you would assume that either all would be found or none would be found. Having one girl found – alive, but with no memory of what happened?! – and the others disappear without a trace seems kinda too strange for fiction.

Also, Weir says that he thought viewers would be upset that there is no solution (as indeed many were) so that's why they came up with the idea of having that note in the beginning saying that there was a picnic and some of them disappeared without a trace, to let the viewer know right away, don't expect any solution. Personally, I wasn't expecting a solution – not only had I read the title card, but I think I had also read the plot synopsis on IMDB before seeing the movie – so this is the one instance where knowing what happens kinda helped. Cuz I think that if I had been expecting a solution but never gotten it, I would have also been disappointed. But knowing there would be no solution, tells you right away that this movie, though it may be called a Mystery, is not the sort of movie where the "What happens" matters.

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What I think (based on absolutely nothing) is that a traumatizing event happened. Nothing supernatural, just something regular but terrible, like a rape or something. The book would be a way for Lindsey to deal with her past in a metaphoric way.

[drinkanddestroy]

@stanton
Yes, any artist has a right to reconsider his work, but then all options should be available to fans. His 2014 preference isn't any more authentic than his 1975 preference. I'd have no problem with it if they offered us all versions. But the fact that (so far as I understand it), there is no (official) way in USA to obtain those 7 minuutes, means he is trying to obliterate it and trying to make sure those 7 minutes are forgotten and unobtainable. That, IMHO, is wrong.
Maybe in the year 2034 he will decide that those 7 minutes should be there after all; (heck, maybe he'll even wanna add/delete eve more minutes!) Should he then release a new dvd/brd/streaming version - or whatever format is used in 2034 - with his new preference and make the previous versions unobtainable? No way. If the theatrical version of a movie represented his vision at the time, that version should always be made available to viewers, even if he later decides to also release other versions that he now prefers.
This reminds me of a discussion I had with DJ, over ribeye steaks and triple orders of french fries, RE: whether it is wise to build big dvd/brd libraries since new formats will inevitably be invented. He says yes, cuz when new formats come out, the gatekeepers may decide for you which version you'll get; don't expect to be able to get every version. So if a version you like comes out on disc now, grab it, cuz you never know if it'll ever be released again in that version. I'm agreeing with DJ more and more. (the only possible argument against it is that if/when the time comes that they are no longer selling a particualar version, i would most likely still be able to go buy used copies on eBay. E.g. For those who want the original American DVD of GBU with mono audio, there are dozens of used copies available on eBay for pennies.) But in principle, he's definitely right. New movies will be what the version the filmmaker/studio want you to see, not necessarily the version(s) you want to see. Build the culture bunkers!

[dave jenkins]

someone posted on YouTube what he says was the original ending of Picnic at Hanging Rock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hChZEMQXFg

Thanks, I don't think I've ever seen that before. It follows closely the ending of the book. I think Weir made a wise choice by choosing to end the film where he did. The way he shot it, the original ending requires the acknowledgment of some kind of supernatural agency at work (in the book, the re-appearance of Sara may only be in Mrs. Appleyard's mind). With the film as it was released, the viewer is able to decide for himself whether the supernatural was involved or not. I prefer maintaining that ambiguity.

[drinkanddestroy]

What is the difference between this "original ending" and the one on Criterion BrD?

[dave jenkins]

What I think (based on absolutely nothing) is that a traumatizing event happened. Nothing supernatural, just something regular but terrible, like a rape or something. The book would be a way for Lindsey to deal with her past in a metaphoric way.

Yeah, but it's also possible that the book isn't based on anything except the author's imagination. One day she saw Ford's painting and it triggered a train of thought. She then wrote a book based on those musings, cleverly forming the material to give the impression of verisimilitude. Then she completed the illusion by being coy about where the story came from. It's very easy for me to believe that the novel is a complete fabrication.

[dave jenkins]

What is the difference between this "original ending" and the one on Criterion BrD?

Huh? Didn't you just watch the film?

[drinkanddestroy]

Yes i did watch the film a few days ago, but I recall the ending seemed very similar to the one in that YouTube clip. As i recall, the man walks into Mrs. Appleyard's office, sees her dressed in mourning clothes; we see Sara dead; then we hear the narrator telling us that Mrs. Appleyard was found dead at the rock, and the search for the missing girls continued unsuccessfully. What's the big difference between that and the ending in that YouTube clip?

Btw, in the ending of the Criterion BRD, did Sara's guardian actually come to pick her up? Or did she run away?

[dave jenkins]

Yes i did watch the film a few days ago, but I recall the ending seemed very similar to the one in that YouTube clip. As i recall, the man walks into Mrs. Appleyard's office, sees her dressed in mourning clothes; we see Sara dead; then we hear the narrator telling us that Mrs. Appleyard was found dead at the rock, and the search for the missing girls continued unsuccessfully. What's the big difference between that and the ending in that YouTube clip?

Btw, in the ending of the Criterion BRD, did Sara's guardian actually come to pick her up? Or did she run away?

Uhhhh . . .

Her guardian didn't pick her up. She died. It is strongly suggested SPOILER that Mrs. Appleyard killed her SPOILER END.

The big difference in the ending is that we see SPOILER Sara's ghost SPOILER END in the cut ending.

Dude, you need to pay attention more when you watch these things.

[PowerRR]

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - 8.5/10
Excellent!

[drinkanddestroy]

THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION OF PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK WILL HAVE SPOILER ALERTS. DON'T READ ANY OF TE POSTS ON THAT MOVIE IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET

So the whole difference is that the original ending showed that "ghost of Sara" at the end?

Anyway, whenever you see the images of the missing girls, you assume it's the ghost? Not that the living people searching for the missing girls are remembering them, seeing them in dreams, etc., or flashbacks for the viewer to remember them? This movie is as much about the effect the disappearances have on the lives of the living as the disappearances themselves.

And btw, Weir says that the images of Miranda were so powerful, it was a shame to get rid of her so soon; that's why he came up with the idea of the flashbacks (or you might call it ghosts), so that we can continue to see those incredible images of Miranda.

Anyway, yeah there are lots of interpretations/angles of this movie. Do you think Mrs. Appleyard has an infatuation with Sara? That the missing girls went off to have an orgy? That Mrs. Appleyard - heck, that the movie itself, is largely about sexual repression?

[noodles_leone]

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - 8.5/10
Excellent!

Please tell me more.
Just to be clear: how do you rate the first one?

[Groggy]

THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION OF PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK WILL HAVE SPOILER ALERTS. DON'T READ IT IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE

So the whole difference is that the original ending showed that "ghost of Sara" at the end?

Anyway, whenever you see the images of the missing girls, you assume it's the ghost? Not that the living people searching for the missing girls are remembering them, seeing them in dreams, etc., or flashbacks for the viewer to remember them? This movie is as much about the effect the disappearances have on the lives of the living as the disappearances themselves.

And btw, Weir says that the images of Miranda were so powerful, it was a shame to get rid of her so soon; that's why he came up with the idea of the flashbacks (or you might call it ghosts), so that we can continue to see those incredible images of Miranda.

Anyway, yeah there are lots of interpretations/angles of this movie. Do you think Mrs. Appleyard has an infatuation with Sara? That the missing girls went off to have an orgy? That Mrs. Appleyard - heck, that the movie itself, is largely about sexual repression?

Is there anyway to move this discussion to a separate thread as has been done before?

[Groggy]

An interesting note about Zamfir - Weir says that when he approached Zamfir to score the movie, Zamfir wasn't interested, so instead, I think Weir took a piece of music Zamfir had already recorded, not sure if it was already released on record, and used it for the score.

Unless I'm mistaken, the main Zamfir piece they use is a Romanian folk song.

I agree some of the classical selections were a bit on the nose (especially the Mozart) but then I'm notoriously tin-earned. On the other hand, several come from the book (eg. Men of Harlech during the freakout scene with Irma).

Also, Weir says that when he went to meet Joan Lindsey, the author, one question he was told not to ask her was whether the story was true. he asked anyway, and she said he should never ask again. So he never got an answer. Weir says that after the film was released, journalists did investigations into historical records, and could find no record of such an event. However, Weir says he believes that Lindsey did base the event some event that did happen and profoundly affect her. It was not exactly as in the book – and that's presumably why journalists found no record of it – but he believes that there was some sort of event where girls went missing on a school picnic that profoundly affected Lindsay.

I've never heard anyone reputable claim the book is based on true events. While perhaps not the best source, I received an email from an Australian Groggy reader awhile back suggesting a parallel between Picnic and the disappearance of the Beaumont children in 1966 - a notorious unsolved crime/mystery. This just a year before Lindsay wrote the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumont_children_disappearance

I never read the book, but – assuming the movie closely follows the book – I assume it is a true story because it's kinda weird how one girl, Irma, is found, but no trace is ever found of the others. If it was pure fiction, you would assume that there would be a solution to the mystery; barring that, you would assume that either all would be found or none would be found. Having one girl found – alive, but with no memory of what happened?! – and the others disappear without a trace seems kinda too strange for fiction.

If Lindsay's goal had been to tell a whodunnit (or what happened?) story I'd agree. But it's not really a "mystery" in the sense of trying to figure out what really happened. Weir and Lindsay are more concerned with how the disappearances affect those left behind. And, more interestingly, how uncertainty drives many of them insane.

For the morbidly curious there's The Secret of Hanging Rock, the notorious "suppressed" final chapter, which wasn't published until after Lindsay's death. Google it if you wish; Secret pushes the story into cheesy sci-fi territory. If it was real, Lindsay was wise to excise it.