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Author Topic: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  (Read 1831886 times)
stanton
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« Reply #14955 on: April 02, 2015, 06:03:28 AM »

At first there are no rules. And you shouldn't let you be limited by such rules.

Actually I don't see the differences you try to make between voice over and narration. Seems to be more or less the same for me.

And in Sunset Boulevard are exactly those voice overs where you hear what the character thinks. Like when Holden enters first Swanson's house, he utters his thoughts, but only describes what I already see. And he does this much too often. It's great at the beginning when it establishes a dead man's view, but later it is often superfluous or restricting the audience's view.

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« Reply #14956 on: April 02, 2015, 06:07:44 AM »

SUNSET BLVD. does not use voiceover (as I am using the term here); it uses narration, which is a whole different thing.
Why is it so difficult for you to distinguish among categories? Narration is a subset of voiceover. It's pointless to create a new way of assigning meaning that others are never going to adopt. Are you just writing for yourself, or do you actually want to converse with others?

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« Reply #14957 on: April 02, 2015, 06:16:04 AM »

The Strange Affair of Uncle Harry (1945) - 7/10. Ella Raines! Geraldine Fitzgerald! George Sanders! Ella Raines! OK, there isn't enough plot here--this is less a feature and more a TV episode in the style of Alfred Hitchcock Presents (in fact, Hitchcock collaborator Joan Harrison produced). And the ending sucks. But there are a lot of great performances, Fitzgerald's in particular. The new Blu has a lot of speckles, but it's nice to have a transfer superior to the usual PD crap image.

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« Reply #14958 on: April 02, 2015, 06:23:29 AM »

Whether you want to call it a different category or a subset of the same category doesn't matter. My point is that I find the narration to be a good device when properly used, but I find the non-narrated voiceover to be annoying. I don't think that is too difficult a distinction for competent readers to understand, whether or not they share my opinion Tongue



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« Reply #14959 on: April 02, 2015, 10:16:24 AM »

In two minutes, I can think of:

A Clockwork Orange
Barry Lyndon
Goodfellas
Casino
Aviator (the radio host is heavily used as a voice over)
Fight Club
Gone Girl
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo
Apocalypse Now
The Tree of Life
Inherent Vice
The Big Lebowski
A Serious Man (the goy's teeth)
Nestor Burma (the TV Show)
Bref (the TV show none of you ever heard of)
The Laws of Attraction (the trip to Europe, which was a whole chapter in a single sentence in the book)

All of them feature very innovative, surprising and effective voice over/narration.

In French, OUATITW features the worst non narrated voice over ever. When Jill finds the miniature station she says, off:

"Le mot 'station' qui signifie gare!"
= "The word 'station', that means station!"

« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 10:20:49 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #14960 on: April 02, 2015, 12:37:35 PM »

What is your point, n_l?
Narration has been used to great effect in many movies. But not a character's voice stating - over a shot of his face - what he is thinking. Like ELEVATOR TO THE GALLOWS, that is what I mean by non-narrated voiceover - , we have endless shots of Jeanne Moreau's face while we hear her voice saying what she is supposed to be thinking at the moment. Does anyone actually enjoy those scenes?

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« Reply #14961 on: April 02, 2015, 01:14:48 PM »

What is your point, n_l?

My point is it's hard to find a common point between all these voice-overs apart from the fact that they're voice-overs. Some are narration, some are not. So a rule like "narrated voice over is ok, non narrated isn't" is as weird to me as "I like colors but a film that use the color BLUE is a bad film. It's ok when they use it a couple times but 10 blue items in a film makes a bad film". Except if your definition of "narration" is very wide. How would you call the voice over in Apocalypse Now? It's at least 75% of what the character thinks.

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« Reply #14962 on: April 02, 2015, 01:53:11 PM »

When I say that it is a 'rule' that it is bad, I mean that I have never seen it done well. Not that I refuse to like it on principle, just that I have never liked any time I have seen a movie do that sort of thing.
In APOCALYPSE NOW, IMO it is pretty clear that Sheen is talking to the audience. That is the distinction: Is the speaker TELLING it to the audience, speaking TO the audience? That is narration.
If the voiceover is just a way forr us to eavesdrop on the character's thoughts, to let us know what is going on in her mind, that is what I am referring to as non-narration voiceover.
In GOODFELLAS, the narrators are clearly speaking to the audience. (Actually, talking to the jury.) TELLING us their story. That is narration.
One example to illustrate the distinction: if the voice is telling us, "I missed him very much and wondered where he could be," that is narration. No matter what image is shown on the screen.
But if we see a shot of someone and then hear their voice saying, "Where could you be? I miss you very much," as a way of letting us know what she is thinking at that moment, that is non-narrated voiceover.
If you have seen ELEVATOR TO THE GALLOWS you know what I mean. Lots of shots of Jeanne Moreau's face as she is walking the streets, and her voiceover stating her thoughts.


I agree that sometimes this distinction is not so clear-cut. No doubt about that. But in ELEVATOR TO THE GALLOWS Moreau is clearly not speaking TO the audience; rather, we are "eavesdropping" on her thoughts; her voiceover allows us to "read her mind."


Finally, I am not making a rule that one such shot is ok but ten are not. The point is, those voiceover thoughts always annoyed me; if a movie had one or two, I could not worry about it. If a movie has dozens of them, that significantly, negatively affects my enjoyment of the movie.


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« Reply #14963 on: April 02, 2015, 02:00:55 PM »

Ok.

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« Reply #14964 on: April 02, 2015, 02:12:50 PM »

I, too, finally get what you're saying, but since the only example you provide is Lift to the Scaffold, I can't tell if you're saying anything important. Lift to the Scaffold is a P.O.S. film (that happens to have an incredibly good score). It gets so many things wrong that there's no wonder they did the voice-over poorly--just one in a long line of problems. Can you give an example of a film where everything is pretty good, but the voice-over ruins things (or at least seriously compromises the work)?

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« Reply #14965 on: April 02, 2015, 02:20:12 PM »

What is your point, n_l?
Narration has been used to great effect in many movies. But not a character's voice stating - over a shot of his face - what he is thinking. Like ELEVATOR TO THE GALLOWS, that is what I mean by non-narrated voiceover - , we have endless shots of Jeanne Moreau's face while we hear her voice saying what she is supposed to be thinking at the moment. Does anyone actually enjoy those scenes?

I always enjoyed the film. Can't remember that there was any voice over, so it seems it didn't bother me. It' a 8/10

Hmm, better than Double Indemnity then ...

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« Reply #14966 on: April 02, 2015, 04:47:22 PM »

Pssshtt I don't even read D&D posts because I know I'll disagree! Whatre you guys even arguing about? who cares.

Interstellar - 7/10
Didn't hold up quite as well on a second viewing, but definitely a fun movie to watch.

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« Reply #14967 on: April 02, 2015, 07:10:15 PM »

Homicide (1991) - 8/10
I give it an 8 yet I like Interstellar more and I only gave it a 7...wtf? idk how to rate these movies anymore. Fucking whatever...Can I just give them a thumbs up or thumbs down or something? Don't yell at me D&D... god forbid I change the sacred rules of the ratings process that I began

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« Reply #14968 on: April 02, 2015, 09:40:49 PM »

DJ: Off the top of my head I can't think of many that use it that much. I think RAW DEAL might, but I may be wrong, saw it a while ago. Hated that movie.

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« Reply #14969 on: April 03, 2015, 01:47:06 AM »

Pssshtt I don't even read D&D posts because I know I'll disagree! Whatre you guys even arguing about?


Cause it is fun?

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