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noodles_leone
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« Reply #15630 on: February 07, 2016, 04:14:19 PM »

Steve Jobs (2015) 8.5/10
Great writing. Probably Sorkin's finest work, especially on structure. It's a shame Fincher wasn't around this time to refocus the film on Jobs' achievements and actual work rather than on his family issues. I was never a fan of Boyle, but the guy is inventive and really managed to add emotion to that cold huis-clos.

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« Reply #15631 on: February 07, 2016, 04:24:05 PM »

You've seen him do this?

Here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VSB3Novw3ew

He starts out explaining how he got casted by Rohmer while Luchini was cutting hairs (his job at the time): Eric spotted a Nietzsche book in Luchini's hand that he had in his coat (Rohmer had the German version). He talks a bit about the preparation for the role and then goes on reanacting the film and the audience's reaction at the premiere. Deleuze, Foucault, Lacan, Barthes but also people like Fanny Ardant and Depardieu were attending.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:31:53 PM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #15632 on: February 08, 2016, 07:41:28 AM »

Steve Jobs (2015) 8.5/10
Great writing. Probably Sorkin's finest work, especially on structure. It's a shame Fincher wasn't around this time to refocus the film on Jobs' achievements and actual work rather than on his family issues. I was never a fan of Boyle, but the guy is inventive and really managed to add emotion to that cold huis-clos.

It stinks!

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« Reply #15633 on: February 08, 2016, 07:50:29 AM »

Here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VSB3Novw3ew

He starts out explaining how he got casted by Rohmer while Luchini was cutting hairs (his job at the time): Eric spotted a Nietzsche book in Luchini's hand that he had in his coat (Rohmer had the German version). He talks a bit about the preparation for the role and then goes on reanacting the film and the audience's reaction at the premiere. Deleuze, Foucault, Lacan, Barthes but also people like Fanny Ardant and Depardieu were attending.
Much, much thanks!

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« Reply #15634 on: February 08, 2016, 08:09:42 AM »

It stinks!

I'm afraid you inadvertently watched the Ashton Kutcher version.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 08:13:46 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #15635 on: February 08, 2016, 09:32:23 AM »

Two from Mizoguchi:
Utamaro and his Five Women (1946) - 7/10. A fictionalized account of the great wood block printer, of whom little is actually known. The five women in this are mostly his models; the film sticks close to them as Utamaro tends to stay home and paint. The film is OK. Actually looking at his prints is more interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utamaro

The Lady From Musashino (1951) - 7/10. Kinuyo Tanaka plays the title character, a woman caught between giri and ninjo, between tradition and a modernity without principles. Another film that is just OK. I guess I have a soft spot for it because I actually worked in Musashino for 6 years. The city just launched an English website for tourists two weeks ago: http://musashino-kanko.com/en/index.html

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« Reply #15636 on: February 08, 2016, 09:36:54 AM »

I'm afraid you inadvertently watched the Ashton Kutcher version.

Nope.

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« Reply #15637 on: February 08, 2016, 12:01:52 PM »

Nope.

(I was offering you an easy way out.)

I'm afraid you're very wrong, then.

I think when judging these films (Jobs and The Social Network) you're forgetting the one and only reason to watch them: what these guys have accomplished. TNS did a better work than SJ on this topic (also, maybe Facebook is a more interesting invention than anything Jobs ever did, but I suspect it's more about Fincher having a better idea of what he's doing than Boyle) but that's still the key point that you completely left out of your reviews although the films heavily deal with it.

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« Reply #15638 on: February 08, 2016, 01:30:04 PM »

The useless three-act structure for Steve Jobs, plus the flat characterization, overshadowed any of its positive attributes. Hated how the movie kept leaping forward in time, then awkwardly doubling back to fill in exposition.

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you're forgetting the one and only reason to watch them: what these guys have accomplished.
Not forgetting, I simply don't see how that's important. An unimportant person can be the subject of a great movie; a great man can make a boring movie.

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« Reply #15639 on: February 08, 2016, 04:21:20 PM »

The useless three-act structure

? How is it useless? I thought it was a great idea when I first heard about it in the early stages of the development of the film but now I've seen it I like the idea so much better. It's a very elegant solution to the most dangerous trap for every biopic: becoming a biography.

for Steve Jobs, plus the flat characterization,
Definitely flatter than in TSN, but I'll still be proud the day I'll write characters like these ones.

overshadowed any of its positive attributes. Hated how the movie kept leaping forward in time, then awkwardly doubling back to fill in exposition.

I'll just assume you missed the point here. That was actually the smartest structural move by Sorkin. I'll steal it as soon as possible.


Not forgetting, I simply don't see how that's important. An unimportant person can be the subject of a great movie; a great man can make a boring movie.

Your last sentence is true but does not apply to these two films, because they aren't biopics. What these guys achieved is as important as, say, adventure in Indiana Jones. It isn't the plot, it isn't the story but it's the heart of the film. It's what is supposed to talk to you. Just like I wouldn't advise anyone who dislike old west mythology to watch OUATITW, i wouldn't advise somebody who doesn't care for entrepreneurship to watch TSN or Steve Jobs.

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« Reply #15640 on: February 08, 2016, 05:21:39 PM »

Quote
i wouldn't advise somebody who doesn't care for entrepreneurship to watch TSN or Steve Jobs.

Maybe I'll put it a simpler way. A movie about an entrepreneur be good, as in The Social Network. Or it can suck, as with Steve Jobs. The mere fact that it's about an entrepreneur is irrelevant to its quality.

Quote
I'll just assume you missed the point here.

No, I "get the point" of the structure and don't think it works. At all.

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« Reply #15641 on: February 08, 2016, 06:40:07 PM »

maybe Facebook is a more interesting invention than anything Jobs ever did

What?Huh? Are you serious?Huh

If I may make an analogy: Jobs is like the telephone and Zuckerberg like the cellphone. (Or Jobs is like the cellphone and Zuckerberg like the smartphone.)

In each analogy, the second item vaulted us into a new age, but there is no doubt that the change in our lives from before the first item was invented to afterward is far far greater than the change in our lives from before the second item was invented and afterward.

Put differently, without Steve Jobs  revolutionizing the personal computer, there would be no Facebook or social media. Does EVERYONE have Facebook? No. But virtually everyone has a computer.

The difference between a world with no telephone to afterward is so insanely huge that it dwarfs the difference between a world with no cellphone and afterward. Same with personal computer vs. Facebook. I don't even see how this can be a point of argument.

Maybe you and I are too young to remember a world without personal computers; but I'm also too young to remember the world before Alexander Graham Bell. But I'm not too stupid to appreciate the way he changed our lives forever  Kiss

 Maybe you'll say that when you said "interesting" you didn't mean "important." Then what does "interesting" mean? Filmable?

By the way, not to minimize Zuckerberg or Facebook - he is the world's youngest self-made billionaire and deservedly so - but MySpace was already here; Facebook ultimately destroyed MySpace but the point is that the concept of social media sites was already out there. Zuckerberg improved on it and made the best product and he sure as hell changed our lives forever but not nearly in the way Jobs did.

BtwX2: Do you find it possible to believe that Facebook may be much less popular in a few years, when the next big social media site comes around? I certainly think so. But do you think it possible that any of the major products Apple invented/revolutionized will be gone? I highly doubt it.

P.s. I still have not seen STEVE JOBS  Evil
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« Reply #15642 on: February 08, 2016, 11:19:12 PM »

Grog: I see what you mean, I'm not sure you got what I meant. Anyway, the movie "talks" to me so from my standpoint it does work. Almost perfectly. And in a very innovative way. Also, the dialogues are absolutely amazing so there is that.

Drink:

I think that without Steve Jobs, the PC industry nowadays would be exactly the same as it is, except may with less polished designs. Jobs' only revolution in the Area was with the first Mac and its use of typography... which had impact at the time but I'm pretty sure we would have the same fonts nowadays anyway. I've never liked the iPod and have had better mp3 players before and after it was invented. iTunes helped the music industry to survive a few more years but 1) I still don't get how nobody had got it right 5 years before 2) it's already almost obsolete. Jobs biggest thing is the iPhone, and i'm definitely not downplaying this one but smartphones would have happened anyway, maybe a couple of years later. Last, Jobs did a lot to bring back high quality electronics with beautiful design and finish back to our homes. That's both cool and not very important.
Social web's mass adoption (up to the point where my grandmother is my Facebook friend) wasn't bound to happen. It did, for the better and for the worst, thanks to a few guys, including Zuck.
That's what I meant. I still love my iPhone, my iPad and I highly respect Jobs impact on our lives. Go see the film.

Facebook will probably vanish at some point (not within the next decade, they have a great strategy and have repeatedly proved able to face big obstacles) and so will Apple (it already almost did before the iMac).

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« Reply #15643 on: February 09, 2016, 12:59:11 PM »

Fontane Effi Briest (1974) - 10/10. Just as Fontane seems to have wanted to do a German Madame Bovary, Fassbinder seems to have wanted to do an Ophuls film using Fontane's novel as base. It's got everything: b&w photography; a moving camera; academy aspect ratio; a long-suffering heroine. It's also got a great Walter Scott joke. My favorite bit comes when Effi's husband, Baron Instetten, discovers letters revealing Effi had assignations with a Major Crampas 6 years earlier. There's nothing for it but to challenge the man to a duel. Instetten discusses the issue with his prospective second; the second tries to talk him out of it. While they discuss things we see in montage the journey they will take to the site of the duel, one consisting of train rides and finally a trip by coach. The discussion is amazing and turns on the question of honor. Had Instetten never mentioned the affair to anyone he could have ignored it. But now that he is discussing the matter with his second he is compelled to go through with the action. The fact that someone else now knows about it--the second--places the baron's honor in jeopardy. Failure to act will necessary diminish Instetten in the eyes of the second. The second reluctantly agrees that he is right. The discussion and journey are intercut so that each concludes concurrently and ends with a close-up on Instetten's pistol as it fires, fatally wounding Crampus. This bit of bravura filmmaking is then capped with a wonderful final moment. The dying Crampas, by way of one of those officiating the duel, asks to say one last thing to Instetten. The baron approaches the man. Crampas begins, "Would you . . . ?" And dies. The baron walks away, probably to see about breakfast.

Fantastic film.

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« Reply #15644 on: February 09, 2016, 02:42:13 PM »

Grog: I see what you mean, I'm not sure you got what I meant. Anyway, the movie "talks" to me so from my standpoint it does work. Almost perfectly. And in a very innovative way. Also, the dialogues are absolutely amazing so there is that.

Drink:

I think that without Steve Jobs, the PC industry nowadays would be exactly the same as it is, except may with less polished designs. Jobs' only revolution in the Area was with the first Mac and its use of typography... which had impact at the time but I'm pretty sure we would have the same fonts nowadays anyway. I've never liked the iPod and have had better mp3 players before and after it was invented. iTunes helped the music industry to survive a few more years but 1) I still don't get how nobody had got it right 5 years before 2) it's already almost obsolete. Jobs biggest thing is the iPhone, and i'm definitely not downplaying this one but smartphones would have happened anyway, maybe a couple of years later. Last, Jobs did a lot to bring back high quality electronics with beautiful design and finish back to our homes. That's both cool and not very important.
Social web's mass adoption (up to the point where my grandmother is my Facebook friend) wasn't bound to happen. It did, for the better and for the worst, thanks to a few guys, including Zuck.
That's what I meant. I still love my iPhone, my iPad and I highly respect Jobs impact on our lives. Go see the film.

Facebook will probably vanish at some point (not within the next decade, they have a great strategy and have repeatedly proved able to face big obstacles) and so will Apple (it already almost did before the iMac).

How can you assume that all this technology would have eventually been invented without Jobs? And if Facebook had not been invented, we'd all be on MySpace or another of the numerous sites that Facebook killed off. Facebook is a key development but not a brand new invention. And yes, Apple created the modern (as opposed to BlackBerry) smartphone. I still virtually never use Facebook, but I am typing this message on an iPhone 6 Plus.

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