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: Rate The Last Movie You Saw  ( 3255244 )
noodles_leone
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« #18795 : February 10, 2020, 10:48:04 AM »

Yes, it is indeed a pretty powerful film, despite being a totally fatalistic film in theme and tone. 

Yet Peckinpah was in a disastrous condition at the time of the making, and some scenes are not played out to their potential limit. I actually think that some of the violence is in all versions wrongly edited. But the episodic structure in combination with the individual quality of the scenes make the film work in every version.

The short theatrical version (105 min) is merely a string of violent shoot-outs, but that gives the film a quality of its own, which gets then lost by adding scenes in which the themes of the film are deepened, but no violence is apparent.  In that short version the film still preserves its elegiac atmosphere and its lyrical feeling, most of the film's ideas are visible, only a bit less easy to spot.

I actually think that the current 115 min version would benefit from some further editing, by cutting out some more of the new scenes, and by adding a few shorter elements of the used scenes from the preview version. I think for example that the wife scene you mentioned is much too talky, much too obviously showing what it is about, and not that well played. In the preview version the scene ends with Garrett hesitating at his picket fence, before he enters his home. This alone does not tell us everything of the wife scene's content, but still enough to deepen Garrett's inner conflicts.

Now that’s a Stanton cut I could get behind.


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« #18796 : February 10, 2020, 10:49:29 AM »

I'm getting the idea that there's something about these films you don't like. Could it be the subject matter?

He should try Scenes from a Marriage, just to be sure he doesn’t just hate Noah Baumbach.


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« #18797 : February 10, 2020, 07:22:32 PM »

Yes!

The 2005 cut is the one from the special edition DVD, right? If so that's the one I had seen on my 2 previous viewings (I own that DVD). The film felt very similar, I didn't notice a difference.

I have no idea what I saw the very first time, it was whatever they put on TV in the early 2000's.

By the way, here is a terrific article about the movie with nice pics and a pdf of the screenplay:
https://cinephiliabeyond.org/sam-peckinpahs-pat-garrett-and-billy-the-kid-finally-got-the-respect-it-deserved/

You watched the wrong version. You should have gone with the one mentioned in the article here by James Coburn:

"Sam had the only true cut that he made, and that’s up in his archives in Sonoma."

After that you should watch the 2005 version to see what was done to it and then judge it for yourself. Personally I don't appreciate the 2005 cut, but Stanton prefers it.

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« #18798 : February 11, 2020, 11:29:14 AM »

I saw Zodiac for the second time. My opinion is the same: very good movie despite Ruffalo not being a very good actor.


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« #18799 : February 11, 2020, 02:12:08 PM »

I saw Zodiac for the second time. My opinion is the same: very good movie despite Ruffalo not being a very good actor.

I think it's the best movie of the 21st Century but all three leads were miscasts. RDJ seemed like a good fit on paper but his performance was unusually lazy and unfocused, and while I normally like when Gyllenhaal plays weirdos, the performance doesn't really click in a Fincher movie - it was more of a Richard Kelly movie performance. Maybe all the greenscreen stuff messed with their performances to some degree, I don't know. But I agree about Ruffalo's lack of talent as an actor - he's an overacting buffoon and an insufferable blowhard.

Ellroy says it way better than I could:

One of the things that's interesting, most interesting, about Zodiac is that Gyllenhaal, Downey and Ruffalo are miserable in the movie. ... It's a great cinematic work, with, at center stage, three inadequate and unconvincing performances. ... I don't believe a word that they say, and it's still a great movie.

https://www.npr.org/2014/10/27/354136460/watch-this-crime-writer-james-ellroy-recommends-what-else-noir-flms



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« #18800 : February 11, 2020, 03:49:12 PM »

I do think it's one of the best movies of the XXIth century, and I also happen to LOVE RDJ's performance in it. It's actually his only performance I really like (he's good in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang too). Mark Ruffalo is good for me too, he isn't used for his acting but for his presence. I guess if you don't appreciate it, he doesn't have much to offer. JG is ok (he didn't realky get along with Fincher, he was probably too young for that; he became interesting several years after that movie).

Un coeur en hiver 6/10
Glad to have seen it, I don't think I'll ever see it again. The movie does very little for me, although everything is well done.

« : February 11, 2020, 03:50:18 PM noodles_leone »

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« #18801 : February 11, 2020, 06:10:19 PM »

I think it's the best movie of the 21st Century but all three leads were miscasts. RDJ seemed like a good fit on paper but his performance was unusually lazy and unfocused, and while I normally like when Gyllenhaal plays weirdos, the performance doesn't really click in a Fincher movie - it was more of a Richard Kelly movie performance. Maybe all the greenscreen stuff messed with their performances to some degree, I don't know. But I agree about Ruffalo's lack of talent as an actor - he's an overacting buffoon and an insufferable blowhard.

Ellroy says it way better than I could:

One of the things that's interesting, most interesting, about Zodiac is that Gyllenhaal, Downey and Ruffalo are miserable in the movie. ... It's a great cinematic work, with, at center stage, three inadequate and unconvincing performances. ... I don't believe a word that they say, and it's still a great movie.

https://www.npr.org/2014/10/27/354136460/watch-this-crime-writer-james-ellroy-recommends-what-else-noir-flms


I disagree.

I think Downey and Gyllenhaal were great.

I don’t think Ruffalo “overacts” - I just don’t like him.

The real-life Dave Toschi was supposed to be some sort of legend, whom Bullitt and Dirty Harry were both modeled after. This role required a superstar. I don’t find Ruffalo to be awful, just nothing special. Dave Toschi is supposed to be something special.

Also in SPOTLIGHT, he was nothing particularly special. This guy wouldn’t be terrible as the “third baddie from the left” or whatever, but he is not a leading man.


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« #18802 : February 11, 2020, 06:13:35 PM »



Un coeur en hiver 6/10
Glad to have seen it, I don't think I'll ever see it again. The movie does very little for me, although everything is well done.

I also recently saw it for the first time. Not interesting. I’d probably also give it a 6/10 (a lower rating for me than you  ;))

I also saw for the first time La Belle Noisseuse. That was absolutely excruciating.


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« #18803 : February 12, 2020, 01:59:14 AM »

I also recently saw it for the first time. Not interesting. I’d probably also give it a 6/10 (a lower rating for me than you  ;))

I also saw for the first time La Belle Noisseuse. That was absolutely excruciating.

No mention of naked Emmanuelle Beart in La Belle Noiseuse?


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« #18804 : February 12, 2020, 07:40:24 AM »

I also recently saw it for the first time. Not interesting. I’d probably also give it a 6/10 (a lower rating for me than you  ;))

I also saw for the first time La Belle Noisseuse. That was absolutely excruciating.
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« #18805 : February 14, 2020, 09:24:34 AM »

Johnny O'clock (1947) - 8/10. See relevant thread.

Fear in the Night (1947) - 6/10. “Bones” McCoy beams down to an Earth-like world where all the colors of the visible spectrum have been suppressed. He has a strange dream which he soon realizes wasn’t a dream about killing a man (albeit in self-defense). On this planet there are beings who practice mind control, and he realizes he’s been elected Patsy #1. Happily, local law enforcement steps in and saves him before he beams back to the Enterprise. Tag line: “Next year I’m taking my vacation on Rigel 7!”



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« #18806 : February 16, 2020, 03:52:45 AM »

BoJack Horseman 8.5/10
Very little TV show demonstrate the medium can also be "art" (I can only think of 7 of them). This one does quite often, starting toward the end of season 1, despite a rocky start. By the finale season, it's full on art (and it still is hilarious). If you have to watch only a few TV shows in your whole life, this is one of those.
Like many said, the second to last episode is Eternal Sunshine good... and there are at least 3 or 4 better episodes in other seasons.

« : February 16, 2020, 03:54:17 AM noodles_leone »

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« #18807 : February 16, 2020, 07:23:30 AM »

BoJack Horseman 8.5/10
Very little TV show demonstrate the medium can also be "art" (I can only think of 7 of them).

Horace and Pete
Breaking Bad
Better Call Saul
Atlanta
BoJack
Rick and Morty
Too Old to Die Young

?

Also yea,

BoJack Horseman - 8.5/10

and,

Haiti Dreams of Democracy (1988) - 7/10
Good Time (2017) - 8.5/10
QT8: The First Eight (2019) - 5.5/10
That Cold Day in the Park (1969) - 7/10
Vincent & Theo (1990) (Miniseries Version) - 8/10

« : February 16, 2020, 07:25:56 AM PowerRR »
noodles_leone
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« #18808 : February 16, 2020, 08:18:24 AM »

I keep forgetting about Atlanta, which isn't fair at all.
But also: TWIN PEAKS and THE YOUNG POPE (which is the worst series of the list).
And I'm not sure I would have put Breaking Bad. I mean it's absolutely terrific, much better than BoJack, but is it art? Only a few episodes point in that direction. In the end it's to easy to "consume" (which isn't a bad thing at all) to prove anything. Better Call Saul is a better example.

« : February 16, 2020, 08:21:55 AM noodles_leone »

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« #18809 : February 16, 2020, 04:26:23 PM »

BoJack Horseman - is it on Netflix?


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