Rate The Last Movie You Saw

[PowerRR]

So what did you discover this time? Saying you discovered new things doesn?t inspire conversation; why not actually discuss what you discovered? 

I hadn't seen the movie in several years, probably my longest break from having watched it countlessly through high school and college. I think the last time I watched it was the release of the extended cut in 2014, right when I graduated. I'd always considered the 60s dream theory but mostly dismissed it. But now I'm pretty much decided that it's a fantasy. It feels so much like a sad old man imagining what could have been. And although n_l was joking, it's also much clearer to me how much of the childhood and early adulthood scenes are made up of Noodles looking back on his gangster fantasy. Unlike the 1960s scenes, these events feel real. But they also feel highly elevated and romanticized by a man who likes to think he's James Cagney (i.e. Harry Grey). The tough-guy teenager, the rosy hazy nostalgic 1920s memories, women fawning left and right over this group of awful misfits, an overly extravagant dinner date that feels ripped out of The Great Gatsby. Only seldom does Leone's gaze break free of its fairy-tail fantasy - culminating with the rape of Deborah - but to Noodles, he's still remembering his life as if it were a gangster movie. He's the ultimate unreliable narrator - it makes me wonder what these events were really like.

But despite all the implied fantasies and embellishments, it's still an overwhelmingly personal movie. Friendship, perceived love, perceived memories, the barreling pace of time passing by. It's impossible not to strongly relate to these characters, despite them being some of the most vial people ever put to screen. Not in a "fun" way like Goodfellas or The Godfather either (not that these movies glorify the gangster life, but the characters are still decidedly better, more likable people than those in OUATIA). I think this movie deals better with the passage of time and memory better than those that address it more directly, like The Tree of Life or Boyhood.

I guess I'd always viewed OUATIA much more literally than it really is. It's a haunting fairytale as remembered (and sometimes imagined) by a sad, pathetic man. Reading The Hoods somewhere along the way makes this all the much clearer - it's probably the worst book I've ever read, but its existence contextualizes the movie in a whole different way. One of the most interesting book-to-screen adaptations ever.

The best part is, I may entirely disagree with all these sentiments when I watch it again in a couple more years. That's really what makes it the best movie ever made.

[dave jenkins]

He discovered that the dream theory got it wrong: the dream is when they're children. Everything else is real.

I think that really IS what he's saying. But then, since you two are the same person, you should know.

[T.H.]

OUATIA - The childhood scenes aren't dreams, they're romanticized nostalgic memories. The prohibition stuff is real and the 60's scenes are the closest to a dream theory. I just wish the soundtrack didn't have the version of "Yesterday". I'm in the camp that the 60's scenes are an opium influenced glimpse into the future.

[PowerRR]

OUATIA - The childhood scenes aren't dreams, they're romanticized nostalgic memories.

That's what I'm getting at, though admittedly too wordy and over-exaggerative. I would argue they are highly romanticized memories. This is taking the book into account and Harry Grey's "experiences", which when reading, are so obviously fantasies.

[noodles_leone]

It's a bit more complex than that. First of all, the whole movie feels dreamy. But we also know what this movie is: it's the cinematic adaptation of a book writen by a liar who tries to show what true gangster life is, and he does that by replicating Hollywood clich?s on the page. Leone saw that and that's what drove him to do the movie: the relationship between the tales we say and reality. Knowing that both influence each other. And that the way we experience life has a lot to do with how we interact with these tales. Needless to say, the whole story takes place in the country of one of the biggest lies ever: the American dream. The movie is very self aware and constantly navigates these muddy waters. Now of course, the 3 main time periods of the movie aren't treated the same. But they're all in muddy waters.

[T.H.]

It's a bit more complex than that. First of all, the whole movie feels dreamy. But we also know what this movie is: it's the cinematic adaptation of a book writen by a liar who tries to show what true gangster life is, and he does that by replicating Hollywood clich?s on the page. Leone saw that and that's what drove him to do the movie: the relationship between the tales we say and reality. Knowing that both influence each other. And that the way we experience life has a lot to do with how we interact with these tales. Needless to say, the whole story takes place in the country of one of the biggest lies ever: the American dream. The movie is very self aware and constantly navigates these muddy waters. Now of course, the 3 main time periods of the movie aren't treated the same. But they're all in muddy waters.

If the American Dream was a lie, folks would have found that out 100 years ago.

Of course the entire movie is incredibly dreamy, but there are levels of dreaminess, for a lack of a better word.  The past is romanticized, the present is presented truthfully and the future is full of (false) hope.

That's what I'm getting at, though admittedly too wordy and over-exaggerative. I would argue they are highly romanticized memories. This is taking the book into account and Harry Grey's "experiences", which when reading, are so obviously fantasies.

Hey we agree on something.

[dave jenkins]

But we also know what this movie is: it's the cinematic adaptation of a book writen by a liar who tries to show what true gangster life is, and he does that by replicating Hollywood clich?s on the page. Leone saw that and that's what drove him to do the movie: the relationship between the tales we say and reality. Knowing that both influence each other. And that the way we experience life has a lot to do with how we interact with these tales.

I like the way you put that.

Btw, there is no such thing as "the American Dream." That's a journalistic canard. What Americans have instead is "the pursuit of happiness." As Jefferson knew, paths-and-goals are different for everyone.

[noodles_leone]

If the American Dream was a lie, folks would have found that out 100 years ago.

I'm pretty sure folks found that out 100 years ago. There was even a revolution in russia at that very time because some dudes wanted to follow an opposite lie. We also got tons of books and movies about the fact that the American Dream is just another tale. One of these movies is called OUATIA, another one is called OUATITW. More interestingly, Jack London himself, who could be held a great example for that tale, wrote a lot against it... over 100 years ago. It doesn't mean that the tale doesn't have some performative value. It also doesn't mean that every cell of my body isn't 100% believing this lie when I'm walking around in NYC.

DJ, thanks for remining me about Jefferson's pursuit of happiness. I do believe many americans quickly lost the original meaning but that's another story that isn't presented in OUATIA.

Jaws (1975) - 8.5/10
Still one of the very few great Hitchcock emulations.

[cigar joe]

Dream Theory discussion merged to Dream Theory on OUTIA page https://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=8659.msg133968#msg133968

[dave jenkins]

Thanks to Savant for tipping me to this.
Route 66 - "Mon Petit Chou" (11/24/61) - 6/10. Guests Lee Marvin (!) Macha Meril (!!) and Bert Remsen (!!!). The Pittsburg Hilton. Chanson. A funicular car trolley.  Fisticuffs. "The lions are eating up all the prophets." Stirling Silliphant. Directed by Sam Peckinpah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEKs_CSt_sk&t=34s

[noodles_leone]

We Need To Talk About Kevin (2011) - 7/10
I cannot believe this was actually good! It partially looses steam in its second half as what happened becomes clearer and as Kevin grows up, but manages to stay afloat. I like the ending.

Adieu les cons/Bye Bye Morons (2020) - 5.5/10
This one isn't good and looks like garbage. The whole thing is more misses than hits, but some hits are quite powerful. The ending is very touching, which I didn't expect after not liking most of what came before.

Mother (2009) - 8.5/10
Ok, no doubt, this is by far the best Bong Joon-ho.

[dave jenkins]

We Need To Talk About Kevin (2011) - 7/10
I cannot believe this was actually good! It partially looses steam in its second half as what happened becomes clearer and as Kevin grows up, but manages to stay afloat. I like the ending.

We agree!

Now try to get that PowerRR guy on board . . .

[noodles_leone]

It's quite tedious to switch accounts every other post. I'll bring him on board tomorrow.

[Cusser]

Last night I watched "Five Grand" on Prime, 2016.  6/10
"An outlaw kills a marshal and steals his identity; a Pinkerton pursues him across the open country. He must be ruthless to survive."

Low budget, did hold my interest though. 

[cigar joe]

The St. Louis Bank Robbery (1959) Directed by Charles Guggenheim and John Stix.
Guggenheim was a director  who specialized mostly in documentaries. John Stix was a TV director. Written by Richard T. Heffron.   Cinematography was by Victor Duncan and Music was by Bernardo Segall.

The film stars Steve McQueen as George Fowler, Crahan Denton To Kill A Mocking Bird as John Egan, the gang boss, David Clarke Raw Deal, The Set-Up, Abandoned, Edge Of Doom, The Narrow Margin, Odds Against Tomorrow as Gino, Ann's brother, James Dukas The Hustler, The Detective, Ironweed as Willy, the driver, Molly McCarthy Blast Of Silence as Ann, George's ex-girlfriend and Gino's sister, Martha Gable as Eddie's wife, Larry Gerst as Eddie.

This has (no surprise) a quasi documentary feel to it. Great use of locations. McQueen plays vulnerable convincingly. The rest of the cast is equally believable

There is a nice sequence showing Gino going stir crazy. Gino is shaving in the bathroom and George comes into the hotel flop and shuts the bathroom door as he passes it. Everything around him becomes enhanced, the dripping sink, the Coriolis of the draining tub. Claustrophobia. The four walls start spinning

The homosexual subtext is pretty out in the open. The St. Louis locations have an archival importance. Interesting film from 1959. 7/10