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Author Topic: The Prison camp orchestra (two-part question).  (Read 17071 times)
dave jenkins
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2008, 11:11:02 AM »

In Italian a "pig" is someone deceitful, who betrays his friends? It has the same meaning as "Judas"? I didn't realize that was the case . . .

Yes, a voice that flows like honey. That's how I would describe Blondie's voice in the Italian dub; it is certainly not how one would characterize Eastwood's natural voice, in GBU or at any time.

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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2008, 03:45:41 PM »

Brutto, here is something for you to make you scrath your head regarding the dubbing of Spaghetti Westerns into other languages. Have you seen Il bianco, il giallo, il nero  (The white the yellow and the black)? It is a Sergio Corbucci movie and I would suppose that the original script was written in Italian (Like Il Buono, Il Brutto, Il Cattivo). I will transcribe here the first 80 seconds of the movie, which is a rant between  Mrs. Gideon and her husband Sheriff Edward Gideon (Eli Wallach).

Here is the Italian version (not translated, I trust you understand it).  Cheesy

Mrs. Gideon

-Per un pugno di dollari, per un miserabile pugno di dollari, che non sono neanche tuoi, devi ripartire subito. Almeno lo facessi per qualche dollaro in pi¨! E invece vamos a matar companeros, sempre in giro con il buono, il brutto e il cattivo tempo. Gi¨ la testa, caro. Sei alla resa dei conti, ormai. Chi sono io per te? Nessuno, ecco. Il mio nome Ŕ Nessuno. Tu devi metterti faccia a faccia con le tue responsabilitÓ. Per queste creature ti danno solo un dollaro a testa. Sei Il Mercenario peggio pagato di tutto il Texas. Cangaceiro! E noi siamo il mucchio selvaggio. Ma tu non vali nemmeno un dollaro bucato, e prima o poi finirai come quel Bounty Killer del Minnesota, Clay era il suo nome, ma poi lo chiamarono il magnifico. Per˛ ricordatelo, c'era una volta il west che dicevi tu, oggi anche gli angeli mangiano fagioli. Ma sý, corri uomo corri, altrimenti ci arrabbiamo sul serio, e se Dio perdona, io no. Perci˛ datti da fare, capito? Vergognati, vergognati di fare vivere i tuoi bambini come dei barboni: Leone! Questo devi diventare, se vuoi fare la rivoluzione nel mondo del west.

Sheriff Edward Gideon (Eli Wallach)

-Ma che c'entriamo noi con la rivoluzione?-

Mrs. Gideon.

-L'avete sentito? Tanto di Ringo o di Django, sono sempre io che me lo piango.


Here is the Spanish version translated into English. As you see, it resembles (to a certain point) the Italian version.

Mrs. Gideon

For a fistful of dollars...for a lousy fistful of dollars that they gave you in Rio Bravo. If at least you'd do it for McKenna's Gold....but you Riding to Hell (Spanish title of A Man Called Sledge) with The Good, The Bad and the Ugly like if you were Judge Roy Bean. And later you'll have to face High Noon!! You are a man with no borders, we are nobody for you; as far as you are concerned, My Name is Nobody. You are such a stupid sheriff that they ask you to deliver the wages to your Compa˝eros. For these kids they only give you One Dollar a Head. You are the worst paid Mercenary in the whole West. Cangaceiro!!! And we are The Wild Bunch!!! Of course, you are not worth One Silver Dollar. I do not understand why they called you The Tiger of Minnessota Clay or the Man of the West and then the 4 from Texas still called you Trinity. And one day they will send you to hell, gringo!! Because they will Kill the Poker Player...And any Billy the Kid will say Long Live Your Death (Viva la muerte...tua). Yes, Jackal, run away and join the Guerrilla. Go, Kill Them, and Come Back, but with money: Watch Out, We're Mad!! Because Even Angels Eat Beans. Go withe the Magnificent Seven, Hercules agaist Karate. But Come Back Alive or Dead, because I Am the Revolution. Don't you forget it!!!

Sheriff Edward Gideon (Eli Wallach)

It's late and I must catch The Last Train from Gun Hill.

Mrs. Gideon

Have you heard the Lone Ranger? If this time they kill you, I will never forgive you!!!


And finally, let's have a look at the English version.

Mrs. Gideon.

After three weeks you finally came home yesterday and now you are leaving again. You don't care about your family anymore. You don't care about anything anymore...except that damn badge of yours... and that damned tin badge is going to earn you a bullet in the head someday. Then what will happen to your family? I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about...all these little ones. For better or for worse, they need a father... even a father like you. What an...idiot I was to marry you. I realize now the only reason you got hitched to me was so that...you could manufacture sons. Well...when are you planning coming back? I need money for staples. We are clean out of sugar and grandpa needs a new pair of wedges. Why don't you kepp the money you've got there? At least give me a little until tomorrow. All those other tinhorn deputies and sheriffs can wait for their pay, can't they? None of them have families of twelve to feed. YOu know what's wrong with you? You are too honest. Yea, too honest, you are a keep-it. But no, no honest God fearing, law abiding Gideon with his big shiny star. You know what you are??? A poor idiot, playing big shot.

Sheriff Edward Gideon (Eli Wallach)

Goodbye, my darling Clementine.

Sheriff Edward Gideon's wife

That's it, run away. You won't talk things over with me, will you? Always running away.....


It makes one wonder if we are talking about the same movie.....

Moreover, the interesting thing is that, if you look at the movements of their lips, both Mrs. Gideon and Eli Wallach are actually speaking....in English.  Evil

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« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2008, 01:33:12 AM »

In Italian a "pig" is someone deceitful, who betrays his friends? It has the same meaning as "Judas"? I didn't realize that was the case . . .

Yes, a voice that flows like honey. That's how I would describe Blondie's voice in the Italian dub; it is certainly not how one would characterize Eastwood's natural voice, in GBU or at any time.


Definitely it is...in this case porco is exactly that kind of person: a bastard, opportunist and traitor. More often we call him "verme" (worm), but the sense doesn't change.
We also call porco a guy who is a kind of sex maniac, but this is not the case.



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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2008, 01:56:40 AM »

Bandolero, I haven't seen Il bianco il giallo il nero, but I know something about it, at least that it is a parody of GBU.
The text you posted is a non-sense and silly list  of spaghetti-western titles and the spanish version more or less mantains the original meaning. The english translation has nothing to do with it, the original text is completely twisted, but in this case I would say it's not so bad, considering the very low level of that stuff.

Anyway, it is interesting to see how non-italian Leone's fans (are you spanish?) also know so well  other spaghetti westerns. I don't like the genre, so I never saw a non-Leone italian western with the exception of two or three titles, that I don't remember either.

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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2008, 10:10:40 PM »

To me, a SW not made by SL is not as great.  For instance, John Wayne's westerns, I find rather boring.  He never grabbed my interest, so that's why I never cared for westerns until I watched GBU, then I watched FFD and FAFDM.   Leone's SW are MUCH more eye-catching and interest-drawing than John Wayne's westerns (no offense to any JW fans here - just stating my opinion is all).

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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2008, 06:27:27 PM »

Bandolero, I haven't seen Il bianco il giallo il nero, but I know something about it, at least that it is a parody of GBU.
The text you posted is a non-sense and silly list  of spaghetti-western titles and the spanish version more or less mantains the original meaning. The english translation has nothing to do with it, the original text is completely twisted, but in this case I would say it's not so bad, considering the very low level of that stuff.

Anyway, it is interesting to see how non-italian Leone's fans (are you spanish?) also know so well  other spaghetti westerns. I don't like the genre, so I never saw a non-Leone italian western with the exception of two or three titles, that I don't remember either.


Hi Brutto,

The example I posted was just meant to show what can happen to movies when they are dubbed. It does not happen in all moveis, but it does happen in many.

I was born in Spain, but I left  many years ago for the far, Far West....of Canada  Cheesy Cool. In Spain, virtually all movies are dubbed into Spanish, and many times I have noticed significant differences between the original versions (English or Italian) and the Spanish version.

I admit that many Spaghetti Westerns are not worth watching, but IMO there are many good movies that you may enjoy: Sergio Corbucci's Django, Compa˝eros, Il Mercenario, Il Grande Silenzio.....; Sergio Sollima's Faccia a Faccia, La Resa dei Conti, Corri uomo corri; Damiano Damiani's El Chuncho (Quien sabe?); Tonino Valerii's Il Giorni dell'ira, Il mio nome e Nessuno; and a few more. Some are violent; some are serious; some are lighthearted...but I truly enjoyed all teh ones I have mentioned (and many, many more).

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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2008, 06:29:38 PM »

To me, a SW not made by SL is not as great.  For instance, John Wayne's westerns, I find rather boring.  He never grabbed my interest, so that's why I never cared for westerns until I watched GBU, then I watched FFD and FAFDM.   Leone's SW are MUCH more eye-catching and interest-drawing than John Wayne's westerns (no offense to any JW fans here - just stating my opinion is all).

Leone was a pioneer; but as mentioned to Brutto, I think there are many high-quality, non-Leone SWs worth watching.

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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2008, 02:06:17 PM »

Hi Bandelero.

Well, I'm sure there are some good westerns made that Leone didn't make, but still, after watching GBU and the 'Dollars' movies, I'm quite hooked on Leone's westerns!  He packs 'em with action and holds your interest throughout the entire movie, unlike some westerns that have more 'yawn' scenes than anything else.

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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2008, 09:19:06 PM »

If you listen closely, the fiddler hits a wrong note ...

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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2008, 09:25:30 PM »

Hmmm...never knew that - you've got a good ear - LOL.   I'll listen more closely next time I watch it -  Wink

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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2008, 03:13:22 AM »

What, the studio musician hit a wrong note?

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2008, 05:58:34 AM »

Yeah, but he did it on purpose.

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« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2008, 01:45:05 AM »

I bet Morricone appreciated it

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« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2008, 01:58:18 AM »

Hi Brutto,

The example I posted was just meant to show what can happen to movies when they are dubbed. It does not happen in all moveis, but it does happen in many.

I was born in Spain, but I left  many years ago for the far, Far West....of Canada  Cheesy Cool. In Spain, virtually all movies are dubbed into Spanish, and many times I have noticed significant differences between the original versions (English or Italian) and the Spanish version.

I admit that many Spaghetti Westerns are not worth watching, but IMO there are many good movies that you may enjoy: Sergio Corbucci's Django, Compa˝eros, Il Mercenario, Il Grande Silenzio.....; Sergio Sollima's Faccia a Faccia, La Resa dei Conti, Corri uomo corri; Damiano Damiani's El Chuncho (Quien sabe?); Tonino Valerii's Il Giorni dell'ira, Il mio nome e Nessuno; and a few more. Some are violent; some are serious; some are lighthearted...but I truly enjoyed all teh ones I have mentioned (and many, many more).

I will follow your advice and watch those spaghetti westerns: it is fun how a foreigner has to suggest an italian  to watch italian movies....and I am quite surprised that they are so well known outside Italy.

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« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2008, 02:18:57 AM »

Yeah, but he did it on purpose.

Definitely he did....the fiddler hits a wrong note and then stops playing when Tuco is beaten harder and shouts louder.
The young guy gets moved and reacts that way because of that strong violence.

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