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| | |-+  The Prison camp orchestra (two-part question).
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Author Topic: The Prison camp orchestra (two-part question).  (Read 17036 times)
O'Cangaceiro
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« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2008, 08:30:54 PM »

I will follow your advice and watch those spaghetti westerns: it is fun how a foreigner has to suggest an italian  to watch italian movies....and I am quite surprised that they are so well known outside Italy.

The SWs genre became quite popular in the 60s and 70s all over the world, thanks to the movies made by Leone and some other Italian directors (Corbucci, Sollima, Giraldi, Valerii, etc). In fact, many people liked the SW so much that they lost interest for the traditional style American Westerns. This is probably the reason why a number of "American" westerns made during the 60s and 70s were made using many of the SW ingredients (The Professionals, El Condor, etc).

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »

Okay, every once in a while I like to go through some old threads of old Leone movies, lots of interesting stuff. I wanted to respond to some of the points mentioned in this thread. (Unfortunately, some of the members who posted a lot in this thread haven't been posting in a while, but what can you do).

I was unaware of the photograph of the Civil War orchestra.

I was under the impression, from Frayling, that the orchestra was a reference to the Jewish orchestras in concentration camps. The Nazis made Jewish orchestras in some concentration camps, forcing the Jews to play music as their brethren were tortured and killed. Leone often incorporated aspects of certain wars -- particularly World War 2, cuz he grew up in Fascist Italy -- into his films, even though they take place in other eras. For example, in DYS, the scene where the civilians are murdered in the cave is a reference to a famous similar event in Italy where the Nazis murdered civilians; the tank commander looks like a Nazi; and there are scenes near the train made to look like the trench warfare of World War 1.

All the Confederate prisoners in Betterville knew that a prisoner was being tortured as they were playing the song; forcing them to play to dorown out the cries of the prisoner being beaten was another cruelty the prisoners were subjected to. That is why the band looks so sad, and some of them are close to tears. The reason the fiddler stops playing is that one point, Wallace delivers a particularly vicious blow and Tuco screams particularly loud, and we cut to the band and they hear that scream; even the music couldn't drown out that particular scream, that's how loud it was. Upon hearing that scream, the fiddler is so shaken up that he stops playing, until the Union officer forces him to keep playing.

As for the English dub: on the special features, Mickey Knox says that he needed to find words with similar structures so that the dub looked decent; if it was obvious that the speaker was saying different words than you hear on the dub, it would be really bad. So those words the officer says (something like "pu forte") so it's 2 words, with the first one beginning with closed lips, then an "F" sound. Knox struggled to find an appropriate phrase, and finally wa sable to come up with "More feeling." (The "P" and the "M" look the same, and the "F" is the same. it works perfectly. True, it does not mean the same thing as "Louder." And you lose the point that that phrase is emphasizing, ie. that the band has to play loud enough to drown outb the screams of Tuco. But you need the words to match up to the dub so that the movie is respectable. (In FOD, made with a much smaller budget, you can often see that the words spoken by some of the Spanish/Italian actors are very different than what you hear on the English dub. The example that jumps out at me is the Mexican Captain, when he arrives at San Miguel and gives instructions to his men that they will spend the night there (at the end of the "Square Dance" song). The dub job is soooooo bad there! So I am glad that the dub jobs got better as the budget increased. (Besides, in FOD, only eastwood spoke English, and he didn't speak many lines; so so much of the dialogue is dubbed into a language different tahn what the speakers are saying. But the later films had more and more American leads, hence more and more of the dialogue spoken by English speakers, so more and more of the dub matches for the English language version of the movie. And of course the opposite is true for the non-English language versions of the movie).

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« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2012, 08:51:09 AM »

s - I will include the interview + photos/names in my GBU book when it finally comes out. I have a large stack of text plus a large stack of the page designs (i.e. photos). There are quite a lot of DVD frames and it would be nice to replace them all with higher resolution Blu-Ray framegrabs

Did the GBU book ever materialise mentioned above?

ICE

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« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2012, 10:12:29 AM »

Did the GBU book ever materialise mentioned above?

I wonder if it's this one: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10915.msg156287#msg156287

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