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: The Ur-Version  ( 17956 )
Groggy
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« #15 : January 08, 2009, 01:59:25 PM »

This is all very well and good, but what is IN the missing scenes? I only have interest in such a long version if we know what's missing, otherwise it's just a piece of trivia.

« : January 08, 2009, 02:01:24 PM Groggy »


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« #16 : January 08, 2009, 02:39:35 PM »

We don't know that there ARE missing scenes at all for FOD. The only footage I've seen not in the current release is a few alternate takes/angles in the FOD trailer included on the italian BR disc. But in that trailer is nothing that indicated a deleted scene. Also, I've been collecting Leone stills/books etc for many years now and I've yet to come across a photo that leads me to believe there's something that was shot and then cut from the film. Considering the low budget, they probably shot only what they needed and pretty much used everything. The only thing I've ever come across text wise is this quote from the dvd savant website:

Quote from Leone anthology review from dvdsavant.com:

"Informed fans mention scenes present in some foreign versions but never seen in UA's export copy, including a scene of the Baxters sitting at the Rojo's dinner table. All of these films were customized for release in different countries. Some scenes were cut after initial engagements, or were perhaps set aside yet reinstated when local censors cut other scenes. When it's difficult to simply get a useable transfer element from a foreign producer, looking for variant versions is not always possible."

I've never seen any stills or other evidence to suggest this is a legit scene, and none of the italian prints ever had this. Also, I don't know who these "informed fans" are. I'm going to get in touch with the website and see if they can point us in the direction of these "informed fans"...

The sad reality of old-school filmmaking is that in most cases out-takes or unused footage was usually destroyed. Even recently, the original negative footage of Blade Runner was marked for the garbage pile, and only bad paperwork on the storage facilites part allowed it to be saved for the recent dvd.  It IS possible that a workprint or very early cut could have survived, but considering the low budget, they would have probably screened it and made changes/cuts after that point on the very same print.

This is all very well and good, but what is IN the missing scenes? I only have interest in such a long version if we know what's missing, otherwise it's just a piece of trivia.

« : January 08, 2009, 02:55:48 PM Jordan Krug »
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« #17 : January 08, 2009, 02:56:08 PM »

Anyway, it's clear that Eastwood never saw a 2-hr cut of the film, right? He saw the Italian release print, and nothing like the Ur-version titoli is hoping to find.



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« #18 : January 08, 2009, 03:01:33 PM »

Exactly.



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« #19 : January 08, 2009, 03:30:46 PM »

This is all very well and good, but what is IN the missing scenes? I only have interest in such a long version if we know what's missing, otherwise it's just a piece of trivia.


On the contrary, I'd be interested to watch missing scenes without knowing what to expect in advance.

I think Schickel's version of how things went is the most realistic and dependable. Eastwood never saw the two h. version. So why did he mention it to Kaminsky? Because, I presume, he was in a Leone-stinging mood and wanted to present him as a bungler who didn't know where it was at and was just waiting for Eastwood to appear on the scene to make ends meet. As we know, he's been proven a liar on the matter of the "advices" he gave to Leone, starting from the "serape" business. But I don't think he invented the 2h story from scratch. I think he shot sequences he didn't find in the version he saw and, after having spoken with Leone during their subsequent shooting experiences, he put things together and declared such to Kaminsky.
Is there any chance they might have survived. I believe they did, though I didn't enquire into the matter. If I'll have some spare time I'll try to sort out the question.





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« #20 : January 08, 2009, 03:37:18 PM »


On the contrary, I'd be interested to watch missing scenes without knowing what to expect in advance.

That's not what I said at all.



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« #21 : January 08, 2009, 04:07:19 PM »

That's not what I said at all.

But it's what I have understood.


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« #22 : January 08, 2009, 04:17:15 PM »

Sorry Titoli, I'm confused by the end of your post and don't understand what you mean by "though I didn't enquire into the matter" Do/did you know somebody involved with the film or Leone family?


On the contrary, I'd be interested to watch missing scenes without knowing what to expect in advance.

I think Schickel's version of how things went is the most realistic and dependable. Eastwood never saw the two h. version. So why did he mention it to Kaminsky? Because, I presume, he was in a Leone-stinging mood and wanted to present him as a bungler who didn't know where it was at and was just waiting for Eastwood to appear on the scene to make ends meet. As we know, he's been proven a liar on the matter of the "advices" he gave to Leone, starting from the "serape" business. But I don't think he invented the 2h story from scratch. I think he shot sequences he didn't find in the version he saw and, after having spoken with Leone during their subsequent shooting experiences, he put things together and declared such to Kaminsky.
Is there any chance they might have survived. I believe they did, though I didn't enquire into the matter. If I'll have some spare time I'll try to sort out the question.





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« #23 : January 08, 2009, 04:22:55 PM »

But it's what I have understood.

I was saying that since the scenes don't seem to exist any longer, the fact that they did at one point is not of interest.



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« #24 : January 08, 2009, 04:32:07 PM »

Sorry Titoli, I'm confused by the end of your post and don't understand what you mean by "though I didn't enquire into the matter" Do/did you know somebody involved with the film or Leone family?


Nope. And I don't think that would be the best route to tread, at least at the start.


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« #25 : January 08, 2009, 05:26:34 PM »

Nope. And I don't think that would be the best route to tread, at least at the start.

Ah, so maybe someone at MGM/sony or the italian distribution company then? It would be amazing if there were cans of film sitting in somebody's attic/basement :), we can all dream can't we?

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« #26 : January 08, 2009, 07:08:32 PM »

Ah, so maybe someone at MGM/sony or the italian distribution company then?

Nope, either. I can't reach that far. 


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« #27 : January 08, 2009, 07:56:41 PM »

A man's gotta know his limitations. ;D



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« #28 : January 09, 2009, 10:32:51 AM »

Hey guys, the author of the dvd savant website was very quick to reply and very generously  forwarded my questions about this "lost dinner scene" quote to his friends at the mgm research department (the aformentioned "informed fans") and I received this friendly answer today (I had also forwarded them my threads about the cut scenes of FAFDM from this site which is why they're mentioned as well) :

Hi Glenn, Lee and Jordan,

 Thanks for asking. I can't say that I can add much at this point. My best recollection is Clint Eastwood's statement in an interview many years ago. He said that he watched the Italian version of FISTFUL when it was completed - "It ran like two hours or more. Absolute mayhem! Later on, they cut it and it was better. Then they cut it too much." I think the first cut he was referring to was the 100-minute version that we all have on DVD now. I think the one that was cut too much was United Artists' theatrical U.S. version that went out at 96 minutes and was the only version I ever saw in theatres. That one had literally every 'bloody' scene trimmed out of it (i.e. Estaben Rojo's two close-ups where he is shot by Silvanito from the ground at the end of the film). About fifty percent of the Rojos killing the Baxters near the end was also removed.

 I'd have to side with Clint on this one. I suspect the longer print would not be a revelation. Speaking of the missing dinner scene, Leone does a 'last supper' parody with the Rojos dinner also. That missing scene might just repeat the same idea. That's my two cents. I appreciate seeing the website (thank you) and I also think that FFDM might be the better film to pursue 'lost' scenes from (there have been too many varying versions of that film here). Thanks again,

Kansas



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« #29 : January 09, 2009, 10:49:07 AM »

Yeah, DVD Savant's a cool guy. Thanks for the info. O0



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